pricing anomalies

[KMRblue1027]

Also, what are those 'uncut' version you guys are talking about? I always thought the games are released with the same content in both US and EU (Europe gets some localisation options but that's it). I only knew of Australia having those strict rating rules that they have to censor games and that's to blame for the usual delays and price markups.

Many games are heavily censored in some European countries and Australia. In Germany all games containing Nazi symbolism (Flags, Soldiers, Guns, etc) are automatically banned. This has been happening for a long time such as Doom II the two secrete levels were removed because they were ported from Wolf 3d a WWII game made by the same company.
In Australia every game that gets an M rating in the US has to be dumbed down to a T to be sold. Even some T games are banned such as Rock Band for even mild cursing in the songs.

 

[Schuesseled]

Maybe its to take in account that the Euro is experiencing severe troubles, UK's new pm rcently told europe to go beep itself when they asked if we could spare a couple of billion. Or maybe i heard wrong.

 

[PieceOfMind]

That's all fine and dandy, but doesn't explain the 60% price difference charged in Australia, namely US$ 79.99 versus US$ 49.99 in US. The GST in Australia is 10%, making a fair price US$ 49.99 + 10% = US$ 54.99 (which is exactly the price that play-asia.com is asking in Australia).

So how do you explain the other USD 25.00 of price difference asked by Steam/2K in Australia? Rent for the undersea cable to bring the mega-download to the big island?

I'd like to know too. As I've said before, the size of the markup (in this case) is much larger than usual for other video games.

Exactly. This.

2K doesn't deserve a single Australian sale while this garbage exists. 60% markup on a digital product indeed. Get stuffed.

Well, they don't deserve a sale on Steam anyway. Other vendors with lower prices might be deserving of the sale.

 

[OzJeremy]

I think the Australian pricing issue deserves its own thread. We're being gouged more than anyone else, by an obscene margin, and currency issues don't even factor in - Steam charges us in US dollars.

And my thread was asking the publishers to address the issue specifically.

Moderators, please unlock the other one.

 

[PieceOfMind]

OzJeremy, it would be a good idea to send off a PM to the moderator with such a request if you haven't already done so.

I absolutely agree by the way on currency issues not factoring in. Aussies have to pay the currency conversion if they purchase through Steam anyway (for example, paypal do the conversion by taking a few cents cut out of the official exchange rate).

Also, because the deluxe edition cannot be sold by any vendors other than Steam, there is reason to complain about such a high markup because there is no ability for competition to offer lower prices (like we're already seeing with cheaper preorders for the regular edition).

 

[Danger]

Any mention that the mark-up has to do with exchange rates is wrong. The game is for sale in US dollars to Australians so any change in the exchange would have no effect on Steam. Australians will pay the full conversion rate at the point of purchase.

It used to be prelonged release dates in Australia that would make people turn to illegal methods to get games. Now it seems they're giving us another reason....

Shame.

 

[Dale]

In Australia every game that gets an M rating in the US has to be dumbed down to a T to be sold. Even some T games are banned such as Rock Band for even mild cursing in the songs.

Where the hell do you get that from? Because it's complete and utter horse poo.

Australia does not have an R18+ rating for games. We have MA15+ and lower ratings. Any game that does not meet the criteria for MA15+ receives the RC rating, which is Refused Classification. At that point the publisher can modify the game to meet MA15+ or not sell in Australia. We can own R18+ games, just can't buy them in Australia.

Learn about the topic before sprouting off incorrect information please.

EDIT:
Here's a list of games that were edited to meet classification, or banned, or never submitted/released for Australia. No Rock Band in that list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banned_video_games

 

[Modiga-Disabled]

To be honest, pricing disparities between regions is nothing new. It's been like this for decades. It's only with the rise in digital distribution that people actively start noticing and questioning it. Generally speaking, poorer countries will have lower prices because that's the way to maximise profits in those regions, price the game out of people's price range and they won't buy it and may just pirate it. That's the theory anyway, how it pans out in reality is a different matter. Australia always seems to get the raw end of the stick.

 

[epicivfreak]

Steam hates you dirty Aussies!! And who could blame them?

Spoiler :

Of course, I'm kidding. I love you dirty Aussies!!

 

[Ahriman]

Its just a sign that we New Zealanders are firmly ensconced at Valve. Next, Blizzard, then THE WORLD!

 

[Danger]

To be honest, pricing disparities between regions is nothing new. It's been like this for decades. It's only with the rise in digital distribution that people actively start noticing and questioning it. Generally speaking, poorer countries will have lower prices because that's the way to maximise profits in those regions, price the game out of people's price range and they won't buy it and may just pirate it. That's the theory anyway, how it pans out in reality is a different matter. Australia always seems to get the raw end of the stick.

Australians have always noticed that we were getting ripped off. But we were prepared to accept the usually crap that we are on the other side of the world and that we have a smaller market!

But with digital distribution that has all changed and there should be a "one price suits all"!

Although the cost might be within my price range it still doesnt change the fact that there is now NO reason why it should be that much more than the US...

Shame!

 

[PieceOfMind]

Regardless of whether the Aussie price is fair or not, it makes me wonder whether they've thought about it very hard. I suspect they would lose a lot of sales with such a high price tag, at least until they lower the price later. If I bought the game from Steam, it would literally be the most expensive game I've ever bought. Especially for a game that isn't gobsmackingly awesome in terms of its graphics, how many people who aren't dedicated fans are going to be willing to put that much money down?

 

[wolfigor]

There are heaps of countries in europe without the euro! there are even many inside the EU itself that don't use the Euro!

Yes, the crisscrossing of European agreements can be confusing sometime.
Here for your "convenience" a nice diagram that explain it all:

You can see that "Eurozone" (the set of countries using Euro as a currency) is a subset of European Union.

 

[bite]

Though in theory all EU states (those who joined after a certain date) should be moving towards adopting the Euro

 

[tom2050]

They might be losing my sale for doing something so dumb against Australia. World politics are always whining about "Everyone should be treated fairly, blah blah blah": and yet it never happens in reality.There is always some dope ripping some country off.

Another reason why VAT tax is a massive rip off to the majority of people living in the country, it simply gives the morons of government more money so they can mis-spend more money on stupid ideas that don't work.

To be honest, I think 2K, Firaxis or Valve have total control over this. Because is everything else in Australia that much more costly than Europe or Americas? I wouldn't think so.

 

[wolfigor]

Let me clear this up for you, guys.

Steam prices are 1USD = 1EUR. This is nothing new, in fact, it is a pretty old thing and there is even a Steam group about it to protest it.

However, Steam and Valve have spoken about why this is. You see, the European prices includes VAT, taxes and whatnot. It's the total price. The US prices, however, does not include these kind of things,

This is quite unfair because the VAT level is not the same across all European union.
You can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Value_Added_Tax#VAT_rates what is the VAT in each EU member state.
Looking at Eurozone countries only we have a bracket between 16% VAT in Spain and a 23% in Greece.
Looking at all EU the braket is even wider (between 5% and 25%).

IF the Euro price was really due to VAT it shouldn't be the same in every European country, but instead US$price + VAT.

So Valve price policy, or at least their justification, is a sweet lie:
Equating 1 dollar = 1 euro is unfair
Having exactly the same price across all Europe is unfair
Valve should have the same price pre-tax across all Europe (this is a EU requirement) and different final price, due to tax, in different countries.

We can complicate the issue saying that VAT can be lower than that.
In many countries VAT for specific items can be lower or even zero (e.g. Books and newspapers are free of VAT in Norway).
In some countries reduced VAT could be applied to games (I'll check as soon as I'll be back in Norway).

 

[Svip]

This is quite unfair because the VAT level is not the same across all European union.
You can see at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Value_Added_Tax#VAT_rates what is the VAT in each EU member state.
Looking at Eurozone countries only we have a bracket between 16% VAT in Spain and a 23% in Greece.
Looking at all EU the braket is even wider (between 5% and 25%).

IF the Euro price was really due to VAT it shouldn't be the same in every European country, but instead US$price + VAT.

So Valve price policy, or at least their justification, is a sweet lie:
Equating 1 dollar = 1 euro is unfair
Having exactly the same price across all Europe is unfair
Valve should have the same price pre-tax across all Europe (this is a EU requirement) and different final price, due to tax, in different countries.

We can complicate the issue saying that VAT can be lower than that.
In many countries VAT for specific items can be lower or even zero (e.g. Books and newspapers are free of VAT in Norway).
In some countries reduced VAT could be applied to games (I'll check as soon as I'll be back in Norway).

Well, I never said it was fair. But the VAT is the same, because the sales take place in the same country, theoretically (cannot remember which country, though), so we are all paying the same VAT across Europe. Just like all the UK sales takes place in Valve's HQ in the UK.

It's about where you move the sale.

 

[wolfigor]

Well, I never said it was fair. But the VAT is the same, because the sales take place in the same country, theoretically (cannot remember which country, though), so we are all paying the same VAT across Europe. Just like all the UK sales takes place in Valve's HQ in the UK.

It's about where you move the sale.

The main problem here is that the law didn't yet catch completely with the complexity of online trade (meaning nobody yet decided to bring Valve to the European Court of justice like they did for Sony price policy in EU).

As you said Valve's UK sales go via UK and via X for the "Euroland".
In both cases they are in EU so, if I don't live in either UK or X, as EU resident I can chose whichever of the two.
GeoIP blocking should not be legal in this case... but I guess Valve doesn't give the user an option, isn't it?

 

[Svip]

The main problem here is that the law didn't yet catch completely with the complexity of online trade (meaning nobody yet decided to bring Valve to the European Court of justice like they did for Sony price policy in EU).

As you said Valve's UK sales go via UK and via X for the "Euroland".
In both cases they are in EU so, if I don't live in either UK or X, as EU resident I can chose whichever of the two.
GeoIP blocking should not be legal in this case... but I guess Valve doesn't give the user an option, isn't it?

They do not. But as you can tell, I am always a member of the 1USD != 1EUR group, because I disagree with Valve's decision. I realise it is much easier for Valve to do (instead of doing actual exchange rates for each country with VAT and whatnot) and it does avoid introducing a whole new level of people attempting to buy products in one country, but I still feel a bit mocked by the decision. However, I am also a rich bastard, so I don't care that much to go out protesting or some such.

 

[tom2050]

Still, what is the cause for such high pricing?

Let's use my on-purpose bad math:
We take VAT into consideration? $50 USD + VAT of 20% (rounded up alot) = $60.
GST in Australia is 10% (extra 5 dollars) = $65.
Going over the bandwidth cap is $1 per GB extra; this shouldn't be 'included in this cost'.
Add in another arrtificial 10% because Australia is way down under, far away, and tough to get to ?? = another 10 bucks = $75.

The price gouge just doesn't add up still... (the bad math theory)

Will they raise the price more because of the cost for answering these questions? (the dumb theory)

In this case, they all love Americans the most by giving them super price specials over the rest of the world (the love theory). Perhaps they are trying to 'pretend' they don't like Americans with the other ottoman comments, to cover up the weird American love-fest going on because they are Americans (the conspiracy theory). This is when we call them 'weirdos'? (the hate theory)

They expect people like me to write posts like this (the confusion theory)