PROD Shadow - Sirian's TDG "Alternate Timelines"

Sirian: A question on revolutions:

How come when I played my turn, the revolution lasted like 8 turns, whereas everyone else seems to have gotten 4? Shouldn't the RSG make a difference (ie keep it the same), or did everybody wait until the next turn before starting the revolt (I waited until the end of that turn)?
 
750BC: Whip at Canterbury is :smoke: for two reasons: 1) Less than 20 shields to go. 2) City is not corrupt. Can get up to THREE shields per turn on its own. You say I really broke out the whip, but I did so only in border towns in urgent need of a cultural improvement. Warwick and Brighton are both on single shield. My whip at Newcastle did NOT interrupt its two-shields-per-turn arrangement, and it could afford one whip. The double whip at Liverpool was deemed urgent. Even if it loses a significant amount of productivity, it gets its temple out there NOW, to get the lead and secure a much earlier 1000-year bonus on the temple. That, plus the moment that town is connected by road to the rest of the empire, the lux we have online can override the whippings. Plus... 20 turns at this stage of the game is not so bad. The penalty per whipping is 20 turns, and yes it IS cumulative. I figured as much as a third of those turns would be lost anyway, during the anarchy switch. After 20 turns pass, the heavy penalty will fade to a single penalty, and then that will fade out in 20 more turns.

You should not have whipped Canterbury. It's way too close to the capital and would have finished the temple in a couple more turns anyway. Let me stress again, ALL of my whippings except Liverpool were at very distant, corrupt cities. Liverpool traded a heavy cost for getting its temple out there asap. You have to weigh the costs vs the benefits, and also look at how well the city can do on its own vs what you give up to buy up to 20 shields.

690BC: with a government swap coming and the LOSS of all MP pacification, the gems cannot wait any more!

630BC: How did Cathy beat your fortifed spearman at Newcastle? What's that? Ah. :smoke:

610BC: When your civ gets surprise-attacked by any enemy, there's a "Pearl Harbor Effect". Your citizens get PISSED OFF and thus some extra happiness going on. Yep, if someone attacks you, it INCREASES happiness in your cities. May seem odd, but if you think about it it actually makes sense. Of course, this effect is temporary. I'm not sure how long it lasts, seems to vary, but it's good for a number of turns, for sure. Sort of like anarchy lasts differing amounts.

Lost the elite warrior? :smoke: That was your only defensive forward unit in the region. Now you have a settler with no protection heading for a war zone.

550BC: Lost a worker? :smoke: I like your Reading location, though. You boldly reached out to secure a resource. Nice move.

530BC: Don't count your turns to track them. Check the dates. Date speeds change at 2750BC, 1750BC, 750BC, 250AD, 1250AD, 1750AD, 1950AD. Check the date speed and do the math. At 20 years per turn, 200 years for ten turns, 750BC to 550BC. OK? Losing track in an SG can be bad for your health. Ask Jester. :)


Overall Grade: D

:goodjob: count: One. (Reading location).
:smoke: count: Three. (Homeland Defense, squandered elite unit, lost a worker).


- Sirian
 
ChrTh: Revolution durations are out of your hands. With no restarts, there's nothing you can do. It's luck either way. If you are in debt, it's a good idea to plan for longer, rather than shorter, anarchy. You don't want to go broke while you have no way to earn income, and have the AI selling off your improvements! :eek:
 
One other thing...where do I find out how many turns are left...Domestic Advisor?

EDIT: Am I also allowed to suspect that the reason other players didn't lose Newcastle was because they read my turn first? ;) j/k
 
750BC: Whippings?? [pimp] The whip is rarely worth it any more. If you are going to use it, you MUST maximize the benefit. That is to say, you want to do a whip or partial whip ONLY when you get at least 18 shields for doing so, preferably 20. Check my turn, play it through even if you must, and see when I timed my whips. I got 20 shields out of each whip I did. The full 20. The max. And even then, it's barely worth it. For you to pull in 11, or 13 shields, that's just not worth doing. OK?

730BC: Aha! Somebody reinforcing the frontier. Can it be? Will I not be handing out another "D" grade here? Will Newcastle stand through your turn? And just think, in the very first round, I had nothing to praise you for except enthusiasm! I'm glad you're getting a handle on things.

Now see, if you had waited ONE turn at Warwick to apply the whip, as I did, you could have had 10 shields left to go on the temple instead of 19. Gah.

710BC: Note, I irrigated the dyes on my shadow. Why's that? Because we're about to go to republic!

670BC: What? You weren't watching closely and missed the attack by Cathy's weaker warrior, before the other one fortified? Or were there two fortified warriors there? (Can you pull up your autosave and check? You should always check. Right click the stack to see what all may be hiding there). At least your city held. Dumb luck? I don't think so. You had the right idea: it WAS time to strengthen defenses, and you took the chance to do so. :goodjob:

630BC: Two turns late on the Brighton whip. You're now two shields behind where I was in my shadow. Remember, the whip costs a LOT. The twenty shields are very rarely worth it, and if you get less than 20, the value is less. You're much worse off to overwhip than not to whip at all, so think it through. You need to plan ahead, even. Figure out which cities would benefit from a little whipping and then watch for the precise timing to do it. Nice deal with Japan, btw.

610BC: Bad choice for Reading. Very bad. Not on the sea (see my critique of ChrTh) and what's more, nothing gained except the pressure on Germany. That pressure can even be an advantage down here on Regent, but it's way too close to the enemy capital to be doing that on Monarch or Emperor, when there's a better choice with less risk and a port right next door.

570BC: Ah. Wonder why Cathy was late with the second warrior on your shadow. On mine, they both came at me at once.


Overall Grade: C+


:goodjob: count: Two. (Homeland defense, Chinese deal).
:smoke: count: One. (Reading location).
[pimp] count: One. (Whip-happy but imprecise and wasteful with it)


- Sirian
 
It is the domestic advisor. She will tell you how many before you regain order. I lost NewCastle, saw the warriors coming and couldn't get a spear there fast enough. I was more concerned about keeping Nottingham covered with MP's, a better move would have been to swap the warrior with the vet spear.

Hotrod
 
730BC: Since Nottingham did just train another spear, yes, it makes good sense to send the vet to the front lines.

610BC: The alliances were not necessary. You've just committed to at least twenty turns of war, which takes a lot of options off the table. It's not as if we NEED help, nor as if we need or want to slow the AI's down and have them at one another's throats. If we get into a war weariness situation, we could be squeezed. If we make peace within the 20 turns, our reputation and trade options are going into the drink.

"What can wait, should wait". Don't get into alliances as an automatic shoot-from-the-hip reaction. The same applies to mobilization for war. Don't do that unless you really need to. You give up a lot for it, and if you ultimately get little or nothing for what you give up, you're behind in the game.

590BC: During the revolt, you did not go through and maximize food through all the cities. You weren't the only one to fail to do this, but I noticed it more with you because there were less of the crisis sort of problems to be focusing on (which is a good thing). The only thing to be gained during anarchy is food and population. You should get as much out of it as you can.

550BC: Your worker results this round leave a lot to be desired. You split up the workers NE of London, putting one each onto jungle clearing duty. If you're going to clear jungle, do it with as large a stack as you can manage: two, three, four, six. Better one jungle tile rendered to a good tile in eight turns, than three made good in 24. You did not get important roads completed NW of Nottingham, including one to shorten the length from Brighton to Norwich. You passed up improving ready-to-go tiles near London and York, and stuck almost every worker you had on jungle clearing duties. The jungles need to be cleared immediately around cities with nothing BUT jungle, however, do so only with the locally produced workers or extras you train for the task. You should not abandon easier tiles with your main work force to rush off to attack vegetation as the top priority. Never forget that the top priority of workers is to get good tiles into operation asap, and to connect vital resources as needed. Down at Coventry, you have no workers working on a road toward the capital, which is actually more urgent than improving the local good tiles. (I had one doing each, and so did some other players, which made for progress toward getting connected and improving defensive reinforcement ability). Even over at Oxford, you have an unimproved bg tile, yet the workers are clearing jungles. Why? Why? Why?

You also passed up the chance to whip progress in any of the outland settlements.


Overall Grade: C+


:goodjob: count: Two. (Homeland Defense. Reading location)
:smoke: count: Two. (Workers, Unnecessary Alliances)


- Sirian
 
ChrTh's Shadow Turn 550BC-350BC

Turn 0 -- 550 BC
Hrmmm...two bad turns in a row. Perhaps three is a charm? Let's hope so.

Only change I make is to send one of the Spearmen from Nottingham to Newcastle.
I confirm diplo what Rowain posted in his last turn.

I'm going to send the Settlers out as determined by Rowain with his dotmap; I'll get the two red dots first, then the blue dot.

IT: The Russians declared war on us! One Warrior got creamed, the other ran South.

Turn 1 -- 530 BC
Warrior v. Warrior would probably be a losing proposition for us, so I don't attack the other Warrior (especially since he's in the Jungle).
With declaration of war, I can fire most of the Specialists: Warwick specialist fired, Liverpool entertainer changed to taxwoman, Nottingham specialist fired (although I may have to change it next turn), York taxman fired (ditto)
Troop movement time...I start a conga line of spearmen: York sends one to Canterbury, Canterbury sends one to Dover, Dover sends one to Warwick.
Worker goes to help get Incense online
Worker sent to mine Shielded Grasslands NW of Nottingham

Turn 2 -- 510 BC
York, Nottingham, and Warwick get Taxmen.
Incense online, go to Mine tile S of Brighton
Russians firmly in "Do-Nothing" War Mode
I send Reading spearman out with Settler; will replace with York spearman after Anarchy ends.

Turn 3 -- 490 BC
Other worker helps mine tile S of Brighton
Swordsman heading towards Newcastle...

Turn 4 -- 470 BC
We're a Republic!
-33 gpt, but Currency in 4...I play with the numbers :D
Currency in 6 (Science at 50%)...Luxuries at 0% (change to 10% doesn't help Warwick, and would only help Liverpool until it grows, so I keep Taxmen there and I work on getting them happy...read: connected.

Turn 5 -- 450 BC
Oxford completes Temple, begins Worker
Spearman conga complete

Turn 6 -- 430 BC
York completes Spearman, begins Spearman...I send him to Reading

Turn 7 -- 410 BC
The French declared War on us! Joan, my dear...how could you?
This is a phony war, I reckon...they're just going to kill the Scout keeping them blocked in...and they do...DAMMIT, a roaming French Warrior grabbed two of our workers!
Russian Warror attacks Newcastle, dies.

Nottingham produces Spearman, begins Horseman. I send the Spearman towards the Worker-Thief in the hopes he'll foolishly attack me.

I look for other lousy frogs...none in our territory except for the Worker thief...grrr...oh well, at least they finished the Irrigation for York before they were grabbed.
I fire the Taxman in Liverpool (happiness boost with war declaration).

Birmingham is built N of Lake, Worker ordered...hrm...there's a fortified Bab Warrior sitting in our city spot.

I check the rates, nothing to change.

Turn 8 -- 390 BC
The French Warrior destroyed the Irrigation! Aargghh!! (I think the computer AI has infiltrated my Notepad)
York produces Spearman, begins Horseman. I send this Spearman to meet Settler due from London in 1.
The Chinese are building the Pyramids.
The Spearman attacks the French Warrior who has offended me so, and wins!

Bab Warrior moved to take care of Barb camp nearby...good for him.

Turn 9 -- 370 BC
We learn Currency, I order up Polytheism..up Science to 60%, it's due in 4 turns.
I renegotiate ROP with China for 35 Gold (he had 50)
I make Peace Treaty with Catherine and get 10 Gold (her whole treasury) to boot
I trade The Republic to Hammurabi for Construction + 5 gold. We will be in the Middle Ages in 4 turns.

London finishes Settler, begins Settler, but next player could veto.
Oxford finishes Worker, begins Worker
Liverpool is rioting but the Computer didn't tell me?!? I rehire Taxman.
Oxford expands, helping Liverpool.
I hurry Temple in Warwick for 68 Gold.

Richmond is built next to 2 Wheats on coast. Production set for Worker.

Building of Settler in London hurt our Science...I raise it to 70% to finish Polytheism in 4.

Turn 10 -- 350 BC
Warwick finishes Temple, begins Worker
Order restored in Liverpool
I lower Science back to 60%...Polytheism in 3 at -2gpt.

London settler is heading towards blue dot with Spear in tow. Middle Ages in 3 turns. Nothing new on diplo scene.

I think I did ok this turn...

Here's the Save:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/prod-shadow-chrth-350bc.zip
 
550 BC (0): Assess the situation, anarchy for 4 more turns. MM some cities to go max food, grow Notthingham in 1 turn.

BTWN: Russians declare war and attack NewCastle, Vet spear defeats vet warrior, 2nd warrior retreats to the south.


530 BC (1); Move Elite warrior away from Sevastopol for protection in Warwick. Mines started at Brighton. Nottingham worker to aid jungle clearing near Cantebury.

510 BC (2): Russian reg warrior approaches from Sevastopol, move elite to forest for now. Continue moving 2 settlers to NE by the dyes and the lake.

490 BC (3): Inscence is on line, move worker to mine grassland instead of desert. Mine Hill at Norwich. Settler continue movement to new city spots to the NE.
More mines at Warwick, begin mining game at Coventry. Russian Swordsman approches NewCastle.

470 BC (4): Swordsman and warrior on NewCastle doorstep. Choose to become a republic, running -34 gpt, need to check that out now. York worker finish irrigation starts more to the NE.
Set research to 60% reduce lux to 0%, currency in 5 (-1 gpt). change York and Nottingham to swordsman. Hurry temple in liverpool for 152 gold. Hurry temple in Warwick for 82 gold.

Trade territory maps with Joanie, Russian swordman attacks and is defeated by spearman, no promotions :(.

450 BC (5): Warwick temple complete, start spearman. Liverpool temple complete start worker. Oxford temple complete, start worker. Found Birmingham SW of Dyes on the lake. Start warrior.
Hammi has Construction, lacks lit and republic, he will trade for the republic but I refuse. China has gold but don't want to trade republic for the gold.

Russian horseman heading towar NewCastle, Warrior is fortified to the south.

430 BC (6): Spear/Settler pair continues to the NE. Spear to Fortify in Birmingham.

Vet spear defeats warrior and promotes to elite in NewCastle.

410 BC (7): York builds vet swordsman and starts another. Renegociate ROP with china for 38 of there 48 gold. Hurry temple at NewCastle for 83 gold.

390 BC (8): NewCastle builds a temple starts a barracks, Nottingham builds a Swordsman and start another. Build mines on Bonus Grassland near Cantebury. Settler continues to the NE. Adjust research to 20%, +43 gold.

370 BC (9): Learn Currency start Construction, bring research up to 50% (-1gpt). Babs growing anxious to the south, bowman are visible, Warwick, liverpool and oxford expand. London builds settler and starts Marketplace. Sending Settler to last spot on the Western lake.

350 BC (10): Oxford and Liverpool finish workers and start Library (Need culture on the babs boarder towns) One swordsman arrives in NewCastle. The other attacks and defeats a Russian Warrior.

A regular horseman and a archer are to the direct West of NewCastle. Will attack from the city with the sword next turn. Settler to the NE is heading to the city location on the forest btwn the lake and the coast with 2 wheat tiles and fresh water.
Trade France ROP for 33 gold, she lacks Currency and Code of Laws/Republic. Germany is behind: Lit, Currency and Republic zero gold. Hammi still wants Rep for Construction, it can wait, we don't need aqueducts or forts :lol:.
China lacks Lit, Currency and Republic. He has 16 gold.

After all this time Russia finally accepts our invite to meet. They have construction but lack lit, rep, and currency. They will give up their 12 gold for peace I refuse with 3 swordsman and 2 more every 3 turns we are now on the offesive and could take a few cities first.:lol.

Oh yeah, construction in 6 (-4gpt) running research at 50%. We have 135 gold in the bank even after I rushed a few temples with cash not the whip. ;).

Here is the Save:

Hotrod Shadow 350 BC
 
I fully expected the negative comments regarding the whip; it was a goal of mine to get your thoughts on whipping on the table before we lost the opportunity with the change of government. Now we (I) know better :D

I pulled up my autosaves at 670, 650, 630, 610, and 590 BC and confirmed the single Russian warrior showed up at 670, remained outside of Newcastle and didn't move with his buddy showing up at 570 BC. I'd have to be pretty zonked to miss an attack -- it was only 10:00 PM when I played, not 2:00 AM :lol:

I admit to not thinking Reading through. I placed a priority on putting pressure on Germany which was, of course mistaken for the reasons you mentioned.

With that out of the way, it's (hopefully) a return to more reasoned thought on the next round.

---> TBC
 
From 550BC till 350BC:

550BC (0): No changes ;)

Russia declares War and loose 1 Warrior at Newcastle the second moves 1S

530BC (1): Change Entertainer in Liverpool to Taxman to gain one more gold.
Since i don't like o fight alone i take a look with whom to ally:
France is more backward and can attack the russian southside so i pay 130gold and Philosophy and Joanny declares war on Russia (Let the Ladys fight each other) Move the Scout so that Joany has freeway to Cathy

510BC (2): :sleep:

Our Palace gets new stairs.

490BC (3): since we shall become a rep next turn i change the Specialist back to workers except for Warwick and Liverpool. as a precaution i switch Lux up to20%.

470BC (4): We are now a Rep with Currency in 4 turns by -35gpt. Lux at 10% Warwick needsd a specialist. I rush the Temple in Warwick for 88 gold (IIRC)

Warwick finish Temple starts Courthouse;
Oxford fin Temple starts Library

450BC (5): Birmingham founded Temple ordered;

france want Lit + WM for her WM i decline and trade TM for TM.
York finish Spear starts Horse

430BC (6): Spear sent to Birmingham couse i want to use the Spear currently there to guard the second settler

Currency discovered Construction next; Due in 9turns by +7gold
Nott finish Spear starts next

410BC (7): Spear sent to the front;
A russian Horse had moved next to Newcastle; so i wake the Warrior there and attack We loose 1hp the Horse retreats; Wake Warrior in Brighton to guard the Worker there; A russian Sword is next our elite Warrior in the South so i move him 1E

France finish the russian Horse :)
A french Warrior gets attacked in the south. He survives the first attack but get killed by the Swordsman.
China start Pyramids

390BC (8): Warrior move back in their cities (Newc and Brighton)
Spear sent a bit westward of Newcastle.

London fin Settler starts Catapult;
York fin Horse starts next;
Nottingham fin Spear and starts Horse;

370BC (9): New built Spear sent west to guard the Worker; Horses sent west to the Settler west of Newcastle

350BC (10): Diplocheck shows that Babylon and France have Construction so I trade Republic to Babylon for Construction, WM and 53 gold; Republic to France for 121 gold; (France and Babylon are now broke); Polytheism ordered (in 6 by +4gpt) Hurry Temple in Liverpool for 104 gold.


File:http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads/prod-shadow-rowain-350BC.zip


Rowain
 
Rowain & Hot Rod:
Did Joan come to you about the (eventual) TM trade? I find it odd that she never did for me and she ended up declaring war...what was different (besides the RNG)?
 
Yep she wanted TM so I gave it to her. She remained Polite the whole turns. In the end I was even able to get 33 gold to keep the ROP. Did she declare before or after the ROP expired? Just curious?

Hotrod
 
I hope the Autosave is still there, because I'm going to have to go back and look. The whole thing is weird...
 
Ok, I replayed the turn.
ROP was past 20 turns (though still active)...I renew it...she attacks
I join an alliance with her against Russia, giving her a ton of techs...she attacks
If I move the Scout out of the way of the landbridge...she doesn't attack!
Hrmm..
Did either of y'all move the scout blocking the landbridge?

This is the second game I've been in recently where the AI responds to a block by declaring war...I bet it's part of the AI.
 
I can see a secret crush on Joan :love:
The first time she offered to so me hers, if I show I mine - I wanted to pull my pants down ;)

I could see Cleo.
Liz would be getting desperate.

But Cathy?
:vomit::vomit::vomit:

:suicide: :suicide:
 
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