elitetroops
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2012
- Messages
- 5,725
Edit: Everything in this first post might be wrong, forgot about Hong Kong. See next post.
I've been looking into the effects of production modifiers and am very confused.
Here is my capital building a Mars module:
We can immediately see that the numbers shown don't tell the whole truth, since it's 1813/3000 production invested, city shown at 160.6 production/turn and 5 turns to completion.
The modifiers I have in place for production and Space projects (that I'm aware of) are:
+10% bonus to all non food yields from amenities
+11% legacy bonus to all production from Communism
+15% production towards Space Race projects from integrated space cell policy (with Military Academy)
+20% production towards Space Race projects from Robert Goddard (Great Engineer)
The production breakdown shows I'm making 146 production/turn, which is multiplied by 10% from amenities to reach the 160.6 shown by the interface.
Now let's end turn and see what happens:
Production invested goes up to 2088/3000, increase by 275.
275/160.6 = 1.712, which appears to be the multiplier I get in addition to what is shown. The only way to get close to that number is if production bonuses are multiplicative, not additive like they were in Civ 4 (don't know anything about Civ 5).
1.1*1.11*1.15*1.20 = 1.685, which is close, but not quite there (could maybe get there with some weird rounding). In addition, the +10% from amenities was already included in 160.6, so why am I counting it again??? If I only multiply with the three modifiers I should get in addition to amenities modifier, the multiplier is 1.53. What am I missing here?
Next, I chop a forest for 191 production:
Production invested goes up to 2415/3000:
Total yield from the chop was 2415-2088 = 327.
327/191 = 1.712, same multiplier I got on the yields between turns.
Now, to confuse things more, here is my Ruhr Valley city:
Production invested 1107/3000.
The city yields show an additional +20% modifier "from Modifiers". The first time I noticed this, I thought it was the 20% bonus from Robert Goddard, but why does it not show in my other cities building Space Race projects? I looked at earlier saves and saw this modifier was in place for all builds, also non Space Project builds. Shouldn't Ruhr Valley be 30%???
Next, let's look closer at the numbers. Adding up the base production I get 150. The interface shows production/turn as 195 which is exactly 1.3*150. Those two modifiers shown are additive.
End turn to see what happens between turns:
Production invested goes up to 1441/3000, increase by 334.
334/195 = 1.713, same modifier as for everything in capital. Ruhr Valley makes no difference here, it appears I only get a 20% boost from that.
Let's try chopping in this city:
Base production from chop: 191 (like in capital).
After chop:
Production invested goes up to 1768/3000.
Total yield from the chop was 1768-1441 = 327, same as in capital. Ruhr Valley has no effect on chops.
The same multiplier appears to apply to the Great People providing bonus production to Space Race projects. I only had Sergei Korolev (+1500 production) and used him in my third Spaceport city when I thought it was just enough to launch the module. However, next turn I was able to 1 turn Forbidden City with the overflow. I didn't check the numbers, but if he got the same 1.712 multiplier for +2568 production it would add up. And this was without either of the +100% production Great People. If the +100% production GPs give multiplicative bonuses like the rest, Korolev would give you over 5000 production with only one of them in place. Haven't tested. And then we have Carl Sagan for +3000 production...
Questions:
-Am I forgetting some modifier, or is the bonus from amenities indeed applied twice?
-Why is Ruhr Valley only 20%?
-Why is Ruhr Valley and Amenities bonus additive while all other bonuses appear to be multiplicative on top of that?
-Is this whole system bugged?
I've been looking into the effects of production modifiers and am very confused.
Here is my capital building a Mars module:
Spoiler :
We can immediately see that the numbers shown don't tell the whole truth, since it's 1813/3000 production invested, city shown at 160.6 production/turn and 5 turns to completion.
The modifiers I have in place for production and Space projects (that I'm aware of) are:
+10% bonus to all non food yields from amenities
+11% legacy bonus to all production from Communism
+15% production towards Space Race projects from integrated space cell policy (with Military Academy)
+20% production towards Space Race projects from Robert Goddard (Great Engineer)
The production breakdown shows I'm making 146 production/turn, which is multiplied by 10% from amenities to reach the 160.6 shown by the interface.
Now let's end turn and see what happens:
Spoiler :
Production invested goes up to 2088/3000, increase by 275.
275/160.6 = 1.712, which appears to be the multiplier I get in addition to what is shown. The only way to get close to that number is if production bonuses are multiplicative, not additive like they were in Civ 4 (don't know anything about Civ 5).
1.1*1.11*1.15*1.20 = 1.685, which is close, but not quite there (could maybe get there with some weird rounding). In addition, the +10% from amenities was already included in 160.6, so why am I counting it again??? If I only multiply with the three modifiers I should get in addition to amenities modifier, the multiplier is 1.53. What am I missing here?
Next, I chop a forest for 191 production:
Spoiler :
Production invested goes up to 2415/3000:
Spoiler :
Total yield from the chop was 2415-2088 = 327.
327/191 = 1.712, same multiplier I got on the yields between turns.
Now, to confuse things more, here is my Ruhr Valley city:
Spoiler :
Production invested 1107/3000.
The city yields show an additional +20% modifier "from Modifiers". The first time I noticed this, I thought it was the 20% bonus from Robert Goddard, but why does it not show in my other cities building Space Race projects? I looked at earlier saves and saw this modifier was in place for all builds, also non Space Project builds. Shouldn't Ruhr Valley be 30%???
Next, let's look closer at the numbers. Adding up the base production I get 150. The interface shows production/turn as 195 which is exactly 1.3*150. Those two modifiers shown are additive.
End turn to see what happens between turns:
Spoiler :
Production invested goes up to 1441/3000, increase by 334.
334/195 = 1.713, same modifier as for everything in capital. Ruhr Valley makes no difference here, it appears I only get a 20% boost from that.
Let's try chopping in this city:
Spoiler :
Base production from chop: 191 (like in capital).
After chop:
Spoiler :
Production invested goes up to 1768/3000.
Total yield from the chop was 1768-1441 = 327, same as in capital. Ruhr Valley has no effect on chops.
The same multiplier appears to apply to the Great People providing bonus production to Space Race projects. I only had Sergei Korolev (+1500 production) and used him in my third Spaceport city when I thought it was just enough to launch the module. However, next turn I was able to 1 turn Forbidden City with the overflow. I didn't check the numbers, but if he got the same 1.712 multiplier for +2568 production it would add up. And this was without either of the +100% production Great People. If the +100% production GPs give multiplicative bonuses like the rest, Korolev would give you over 5000 production with only one of them in place. Haven't tested. And then we have Carl Sagan for +3000 production...
Questions:
-Am I forgetting some modifier, or is the bonus from amenities indeed applied twice?
-Why is Ruhr Valley only 20%?
-Why is Ruhr Valley and Amenities bonus additive while all other bonuses appear to be multiplicative on top of that?
-Is this whole system bugged?
Last edited:
