::Project 2::Middle Ages

[lifeaquatic]

As many of you may know I love the conquests and love fixing them up even more. Well I'm following up the Age of Discovery fix (edad de la exploracion) with a new Middle Ages. On this one I want to essentially maintain the structure the way it is but tweak things to make it better and possibly add a few units and/or techs buildings etc.

But it won't be as all out as the Edad de la exploracion which is really a compilation of the Napoleonic and the Age of discovery and other elements all of their own.

In my mind the Middle ages is quite complete and only needs minor adjustments. But that said I'd like to hear your opinions. this forum is not creation but people who love the game the way it is and don't want to change every little thing, like the people in creation. Its my thought to maintain the same look feel and style but just improve with minor adjustments.


So please tell me what you love and hate about Middle ages Conquest.

 

[Own]

i wish feudalism, not monarchy, was the starting government. needs more governments.

 

[DBear]

If you can stop the AI from trying to colonize Siberia, that in itself would be worthwhile.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Include the Mongols...
Ed Beach indeed thought of this, that's why they are a Civ; they just have no cities.
Yes, Feudalism as alternative Gov may be nice; but, cash-rushing is such an integral part of that scenarion, and we don't want the AI to whip down their cities...so I'd advice a hybrid Gov, Feudalism unit support and chash-rushing.

Some of the small wonders (those medical ones) should allow city size 3; otherwise only coastal cities can exceed size 12. Small wonders since it should be rare - but it's a bit odd that neither the historically largest European (Paris) not Arab (Bagdad) city of that time can grow. While Bretany or Dorestad (which practically ceased to exist during medieval) can .

Otherwise, this conquest is pretty perfect. There really isn't much to change here; especially the balance is outstanding (and I really know, I played it with EVERY possible Civ - including the Mongols and all other AI only Civs).

 

[Own]

im just saying fuedalism cause that was the government most middle ages kingdoms had (actually fuedal monarchy). i surely hope if middle ages gets fuedalism it won't be as bad as it is in the original civ3 rules (shudder). some civs should be monarchy, some fuedalism, some "fuedal monarchy."
basically a more variety of governments, and at least one should have the commerce bonus.

 

[lifeaquatic]

Okay good stuff so far! Theres more problems than that I noticed however. For instance its too short, needs more turns. Also you get stacks of Knights, Knights should be more elite, difficult to attain, perhaps have building produce or small wonder.


Just thoughts... let me know what you guys think.

Also how should the crusaders be implimented? Do you like the way it is where you can build them for cheap? Seems to me they interfere with infantry this way in fact nullifying infantry...perhaps building should produce Crusader also?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I wouldn't change much about the units. Several Civs cannot build any type of Knight, and that isn't unbalancing when playing them either (Vikings, Bulgars, Magyars, Celts; and the Cataphract is so bad, you better abstain here as well).
The problem when you take away Knights from everyone is the travelling time.

 

[Own]

Maybe make them cost 100 shields, and crusaders, and other infantry cheaper. Knights should get 1+ bonus (maybe even 2) to hit points.

Round Table should be a wonder, that creates something everything 5 or so turns.

 

[lifeaquatic]

Yes I might just increase the cost of Knights a little bit. I think crusaders should also be more expensive, as they are they cost the same as infantry yet they are stronger.

The knights are strong enough however, no bonus points.


Another major problem is the assasins. they build way to many of these and they are only detectable by Byzantine. I don't want to eliminate them but give me ideas...

Increase cost? Decrease strength? Make available from building?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Uh, maybe you should play that scenario before you decide it needs to be improved ?
Crusaders are indeed stronger, but they require to research an entire flavor branch to get there. MDI come with a mandatory tech, which also offers the best wonder of that conquest.
And, Byzantines are about the least to detect Assassins. Everyone can build them (and should do so), but Byz have a hard time concerning research, considering they simply must research the first techs of their own tree, and then break into the Catholic ones; in other words, they can't afford to open the Arab tree, and they cannnot trade for their own techs (since they are horrible expensive).

 

[lifeaquatic]

Ok i started work, here are the changes thus far, now please comment if you like dislike any of these, their tentative anyways:

1. Time limit removed, i like a game to go on as long as needed, the time limit interupts fun.

2. Knight increased to 100 cost

3. Time frame changed to weeks

4. Changed knights templar to small wonder, same effects producing crusader every 8 turns.

5. Crusader made unavailable so only Knights templar will produce, gave crusader 1 bonus HP.

6. gave assasin attack 4 instead of 5. Its purpose is to assasinate, not to destroy organized armies.


ok so discuss this and I'm open to changing any of them you like, I'm just trying to sprun some discussion

 

[lifeaquatic]

Ok i started work, here are the changes thus far, now please comment if you like dislike any of these, their tentative anyways:

1. Time limit removed, i like a game to go on as long as needed, the time limit interupts fun.

2. Knight increased to 100 cost

3. Time frame changed to weeks

4. Changed knights templar to small wonder, same effects producing crusader every 8 turns.

5. Crusader made unavailable so only Knights templar will produce, gave crusader 1 bonus HP.

6. gave assasin attack 4 instead of 5. Its purpose is to assasinate, not to destroy organized armies.


ok so discuss this and I'm open to changing any of them you like, I'm just trying to spurn some discussion. Also I will be adding feudalism and as suggested it will be a hybrid of monarchy with payment to hurry and unit support of feudalism.

 

[Own]

Take out war wariness in fuedalism, and it shouldn't require maitenence, I don't believe there was government funding for shops and such, so no maitenence.

When finished, I would like a copy!

 

[lifeaquatic]

Any other balance suggestions?

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

What happens if you remove the invisible flag from the assasin? That bug was never fixed and is the cause of many wars involving the arab countries.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

But, why would you want to remove that entirely realistical feature ?

Of course that's a major annoyance for the regular game, but in this conquets it fits perfectly.

 

[bkwrm79]

The major change I'd like is to the map... it should be impossible to settle Siberia. I don't know if you should just make it terrain that cities can't be built on, or even make it impassable. I might see if I can get my editor working again (strangely, the editor gives all sorts of error messages whenever I open it, yet the rest of the game works fine).

I haven't played the scenario enough to comment intelligently on minor changes. Definitely plan to.

 

[Tomoyo]

You can make Siberia all landmark unsettleable terrain, can't you?

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Desert and Tundra is unsettable anyway here, with Tundra even impassable.
You could simply replace most of siberia with desert.

 

[lifeaquatic]

Im sketchy on which area Siberia covers exactly. Of course i know where Siberia is but if i were to block it all out (i'll have to use landmark terrain plains because half of Siberia is tundra and you can't put desert next to tundra, it won't let you)how far south exactly. Can someone mark a map for me or something?

now i find the assasins and spies very unrealistic and annoying. How could assasins take out an organized army? Its ludicrous. The inquisitors are as strong as Infantry! Its so silly. My thought is to either reduce the strength of all of them or remove completely. Thoughts?

Also any new unit additions that would be important? I don't want to go overboard but theres a need for a few new things.