Proposal: Add a ranged Slinger unit before Archer

[youngsteve]

I like your suggestion but what about the Babylonian Bowman. Will this be pushed back as well, as if it does will affect them, & seem late for them. I don't think they are a strong civ as it is. Bowman can be awesome in the right cicumstances, but AI never uses them well, & this will make them worse.

 

[pineappledan]

I moved the bowman to be an archer replacement, kept the atlatl as a CBow replacement and restored its early unlock bonus (unlocks at mathematics). The Inca slinger is now a slinger replacement that is available immediately

 

[CppMaster]

That’s not a problem at all. I wasn’t trying to make something to replace warriors. I was just trying to make a stopgap so archers could be put later and made stronger.

If warriors are fine as a replacement for slingers, then slingers are not needed if you want to move archers further.

 

[youngsteve]

If warriors are fine as a replacement for slingers, then slingers are not needed if you want to move archers further.

They are needed as a limited range unit, just as a warrior is a limited melee unit, & pathfinder a limited scouting unit. I think they fit in well.

 

[Zanteogo]

They are needed as a limited range unit, just as a warrior is a limited melee unit, & pathfinder a limited scouting unit. I think they fit in well.

Like I said though, in my practice with them, they are kind of pointless.

If you need something to take out barbs a second warrior is just way better. If you rush spearmen, you can use your upgraded warriors to take out some unwalled cities as well.

Also again, if we are talking about adding slingers to base VP, the added problem is archers are not very good in it. They do have a use, just a small use. (outside of an early rush to take out a city without a wall, but I find spearmen do this better)

IMHO Archers and Comp Bows need an increase in ranged damage in VP. (or make them super effective at damaging high health units, but poor at damaging low health units, but this is a massive can of worms to deal with)

 

[Zakuzelo]

The Slinger itself looks good, but I don't understand the Catapult changes at all. It gives defense options to the middle of the tree? How? If we're not factoring in attacking cities then the new archer would be superior in every way. It fills out Mathematics? The tech would still have a very good unit and two strong wonders. And this proposal would nerf Trapping into the ground anyway, so tech balancing is already out the window.
In my experience Catapults at Iron Working works beautifully well, far more so than it ever did at Mathematics. Makes it THE premier classical warfare tech, as it should be. I can't be in favor of anything that would change that.

 

[Rekk]

@pineappledan Did you try removing the Land Unit Penalty from Catapults so that they're a decent defensive option at Mathematics?

 

[pineappledan]

I contemplated reducing the siege inaccuracy penalty, but decided that went too far in nerfing melee

 

[Rick Drayson]

As a civ 1 player , as a civ fan who acknowledges that civ v vp is the best civ experience ever. These changes are well thought out and add variety to an otherwise lacking variety early game

fully endorse