Provincial Borders Discussion

[Chieftess]

Since it's almost time to decide, I'm putting forth the first border discussion/suggestion. A couple of things before we start...

1 - I'd like to include the coast.
2 - We're on a (70%?) continent, so let's keep our provinces small (7-10 cities). We could afford 10-13 cities on 60% continents, and pangaeas, but things are a little cramped on this one.
3 - Let's try to follow the natural boundries.

We should be able to see what's behind that fog to the north soon... (A spear could be sent to Zojoji, allowing the warrior to explore).

EDIT: Note the "I" in the Babylonian territory. They have iron.

 

[DaveShack]

I would like to split the main core into at least two provinces, so we can have a minimum of two governors of productive areas. Three would be even better, if there is a way to do it easily. I don't oppose using natural boundaries, but would prefer to avoid borders which slice through the initial 9 squares of a city. Including or not including water tiles is unimportant, and it's hard to imagine not including them. I never did see why some people argued for that in the last game.

Proposal later, when I'm able to generate a map.

 

[Provolution]

This is a vision on how to organize our provinces

The following Procincial Proposal is develop for ease of organization and recognizing we have many talented magistrates who can fill the positions as Provinicial Governor of Zarnia (Z) and Colonial Governor of respectively "Mitsubishi" (M) (Three Diamonds) and Colonial Governor of "Wastelands" W.

The division of borders is based jointly on topograpical facts, natural borders, nature of economy and the nature of military terrain as well as challenges in land improvment with large regional variations, recognizing planetary age.

Zarnia is the very heartland of Japanatica, bountiful, rich in food, lush vegetation, rolling hills, wineyards in the north, long rivers, hot foodplains, occasional sands for leisure and a small national park of Jungle north of the Capital. In general, Zarnia is the most civilized and developed province.
This terrain is primarily held by spearmen and the occasional swordsman, and in the future will hold an army of imperial samurai. The economy is based on agriculture, forestry and the occasional mining activity, and is the nations source of many settlers. Capital and provincial capital, Fanatikku.

Mitsubishi is the Southern Highlands of Japanatica, very distinct with rolling hills and mountain ranges, as well as the lands wealth in gems and gold, as well as source to horses on the Horseplateau, as well as iron. Mitsubishi is the
industrial highlands of Japanatica, but also a province with bright prospects in
science, culture, horsemanship, swordsmithing and powerful merchantfamilies.
I assume the Merchant Guild is located here, and Chieftess live there.
Cities are presently Furuyama up north, Epolenep in the south, and a future city, "Horseport"/Umeguchu is drafted in the West, "Area 52 is drafted in Northeast, and a fifth city is secretly being drafted to make the province of Mitsubishi strong. Mitsubishi will see more difficult terrain battles than any other location, with emphasis on spearmen, swordsmen and catapults.
WE expect Mitsubishi to be a peaceful region well into the end of Term 2.

Wastelands is the new colonial effort of Japanatica for our next major landgrab. Wastelands has not yet aspired to State status in Japanatica, but considered such a strategic territory we already made it a province.
Wastelands are characterized by desert, rolling hills and a lake in the west, through vast jungles and rolling hills, even some peaks all the way to the Eastern coast of the Continent. This province holds silks, iron and horses, a comprarable province profile to Mitsubishi, a province hard to develop, but rich in natural resources and with neighboring challenges. Wastelands will see some typical infantry terrain, but also open areas where cavalry may well win the day.

Mitusbishi will handle Babylonian borders, Wastelands Roman borders and finally will Zarnia handle the Zulu borders, so that each governor has comparable job situations. Zarnia will still remain our core province, where Mitsubishi and Wastelands will secure strategic resources and luxuris facing our two minor opponents, letting Zarnia face the more powerful Zulus.

Finally, I considered provinces as work in progress, and is against turnkey provinces. Provinces should also be actively developed by the governor, and may serve as a clearinghouse for cityplanning in order to ascertain a more holistic solution of organizing cities, as well as considering the role of the province, and be able to identify with it.

WE should be bold and create 3 provinces in order to let the talent of the people aspire to bring the nation forwards, and see if we can expand these.

 

[Civman2004]

In regards to your proposal Provolution, I think 3 provinces at the moment is too ambitious. Wastelands province has a lot of potential, once we send an army of workers to clear the jungle and link the spices. I think it needs to start out as an offshoot of Zarnia until it has some viable cities.

I think most of the drive into Wastelands will need to come from the Zarnian cities., particularly Immo and Fanatiku. I also think that we need to look at founding a city from Mistubishi next to those two cattle - it has potential (river nearby will mean easy irrigation) and it will help to stem the Babylonian advance.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Well, let us then at least make a demarkation line or two. And actually establish the separate Province of "Six Diamonds".

My proposed Demarcation Line between Zarnia and Six Diamonds is the Purple line in this map. The Pink Lines represent what I think to be solid (or nearly so) physical boundaries between cultures, or at least "no carving here yet" lines.

The Blue Dashed line represents what I see the ultimate limits of Zarnia to be; in other words, at least 2 more Provinces would be created from what would be Zarnia but that would likely wait until near the end of the Ancient Era. I do not have such a line for Six Mountains" because I would like to know where the "Cattle City" would go, with the Cattle themselves being near what I currently see as the border. But for the present, Operations in what I call the "Northern" and "Eastern Territories" would be administed by Zarnia, while the "SouthEastern Territories" would fall under "Six Diamonds".

 

[Octavian X]

I'd stay away from creating small provinces, really. Later on, we'll regret that decision if our pool of would-be provincial administrators runs dry. I could see everything from Epolenep to Hlobane to Antioch to Ellipi as one province.

 

[Sir Donald III]

Octavian, Antioch is a Persian City. I think you're refering to Antium.

 

[Chieftess]

Ok, guys... first, use grids so that it's easier to see the borders. Also, draw along the gridlines, too. Lastly, provinces should have at minimum, 7 cities, and at most, 20 cities. We're on a 70% continent most likely, so that makes for 7-10 cities. If we have too many 1-2 city provinces, we won't have enough governors. (How are you going to get 50 governors in term 4 and 5 when we can barely keep up with 15-20 governors in DG1 and 2?

 

[blackheart]

This is my proposal for dividing our current territory. Please note that this does not include any future conquests we make take, it only takes into consideration our future ventures to the north. I think that most of the land to the east will be claimed by the Romans or Zulu by the time we can get a settler there, but I did include some expansion.

Dark red lines are our future border. Green lines seperate the provinces.

 

[Chieftess]

Kind of boxy for my tastes...

 

[Gunner]

I think that it makes sense for the core provinces to be relatively small city wise because they are all of higher quality. Latter as more cities are aquired, the outlying provinces can have more cities.

That way each govener can have roughly equal production/population (theoretically).

 

[Provolution]

Gunner, this is EXACTLY why Six Diamonds/Babylon and Wastelands/Rome would be good exterior provinces, since they will be run as frontier provinces, where Zarnia will be run as
our imperial core. Different management styles basically.

 

[Gunner]

Yes, I support the Six Diamonds and Wasteland proposal.

 

[Cyc]

@ Blackheart. The above map is 944 X 766 and I like it. It is a much better map than Provolution's or SD3's. I can fit yours all in one screen and don't have to use the scroll bar to read the text. Thank you. I guess maybe 800 pixels is a little to stringent.

 

[Provolution]

I found out that my future format will be 900X640 I take all qualified feedback seriously, but you are right Cyc, 800 was too strict.

 

[Epimethius]

First of all, I think its too early to be doing this. But I guess an election is coming up. I don't think we're going to expand much (if I have anything to do with it we won't), so I tried to cram as many in as possible. I got three, with conservative estimates on our borders:

Zarnia (Fanatikku, Zojiji, Immo)
Prov. 2 (none, yet)
Prov. 3 (Furukawa, Epolenep)

These are for geographical reasons, mainly.

 

[Zarn]

I don't like how Zarnia's cities are cut from their outlaying lands. The capital should not be on the border of the province. What if Zarnia needs that land for the capital (and it will)? What about Immo, which also loses one of its closest tiles?

 

[snipelfritz]

I'd have to agree with Zarn. A couple of Zarnia's cities are cut of from land tiles they most definately(sp?) will need.

 

[Chieftess]

There will always be cities that have tiles in other provinces (happened in other demogames prior to this one). Why, there was once a city with half of it's tiles in another province once in DG2. However, I don't like the last proposal. Too small, and eats into the core cities a bit. If we were on an 80% archipelago map (standard size), 3 cities to a province would be fine.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

My choice so far would be Chieftess', but keep them coming. I would rather have bigger provinces and have the governor appoint a Lieutenant if necessary, rather than making many small ones, leading to not enough governors. Just think if all our provinces had 2-4 cities.