Provincial Borders Discussion

Cyc said:
@ Blackheart. The above map is 944 X 766 and I like it. It is a much better map than Provolution's or SD3's. I can fit yours all in one screen and don't have to use the scroll bar to read the text. Thank you. I guess maybe 800 pixels is a little to stringent.
Thanks. The funny thing is that it automatically sized itself as 944 x 766. Epimethius, why are you against expansion? It's the only way we are going to avoid war and gain resources.
 
I'm for any of the proposals which divide the core into at least two productive provinces, and against anything which puts the capitol at the center of a province. Small provinces at the center and larger ones at the outside is the way to go, that way each governor has about the same amount of production per chat, it's just a few cities producing a lot vs. a lot of cities producing a little. Captured lands are just too easy to manage, it's temple, worker, worker, worker, etc. or start something which may not finish until the game is over.
 
The border was only for geographic reasons, it doesn't really matter beyond that it has the city within it. The whole city radius would be in the province, that's just the official border. The governor would not lose control of a large portion of his city just because a river runs there.

And I'm not against peaceful expansion, its just that we haven't gotten that far yet. The borders I showed were what I felt was realistic at this point. If we colonize that jungle or the north, those could be other provinces, too.
 
To those people who want really large provinces and borders extending all the way across the continent, aren't we jumping the gun a bit here? We haven't made it that far and should make provinces for the now, not the future. When we do expand we can change province sizes, etc.
 
Personally, because of our situation of being on the coast, I feel a small Capital Province should be used, followed by larger, open-ended sub-Provinces (who's borders could be amended over time). We've found the western, eastern, and southern coasts already. Judging from the tribes we've met, we can guesstimate the fullness of our land mass. There may be a blossoming of land west of the Babs or east of the Iro's, but we can deal with that later.

I know some people like President DaveShack are strongly opposed to a Capital Province. Well, DS they call it a Capital Province for a reason. And it only makes sense to have our Core cities in with the Capital. That's why I say keep it small. The capital and surrounding 3 (three) cities. Check it out.


This map was made with an 880 pixel width ;)
 
I would like to ask Chieftess, giving name to Furuyama, but residing in Epolenep, and Mayor of Furuyama, Donovan Zoi, on where they want Furuyama to belong, in the Highland Province of Six Diamonds or in the Capital Province.

Additionally I agree in principle with Cyc proposal, with a capital core province, and two frontier provinces of untamed wilderness and one faced nighbor in each.

Except for consulting the Furuyama interests (I do not want a Kashmir conflict), I would like to add Sake City/Odowara to the Capital Province, and add wines to it.

If furyama goes to Six Diamonds, Province "B", I would like a fifth and final city to be on the Gold next to that river as the Eastern Capital Province Border.
A Five City Capital Province in Demogame 5 makes perfect sense :)
 
I like Cyc's proposal as it stands (with future changes to the three new provinces, of course).

Epolenep could be the capital of whatever province will be in the South.

I wouldn't think more than 5-6 cities would be fair for the core, and 4 seems to be the best answer.
 
I agree in principle, but really think Odowara should be included in the capital province, as iit has some common features, and that Immos border would be unnatural northwards-

I still wait for CT and DZ to give their input on where to belong.

I certainly think that we need 5 cities in the Capital Province.
 
Okay, spending my free time trying to carve up the entire Southern Sub-Continent.

What I think we all agree on is that Fanatikku and Immo are too close to each other to not put them in the same province.

Provo, If the Capital Province would have 5 Cities, I'd go with the Wine Site. But that would crowd the Borders of "Gold Mine" if we settle it.

Then again, I'm not sure if even Zojoji should be in the Capital Province, as opposed to the Capital of the Northern Territories (which Hlobane would be added to...) And previous discussion had Furuyama as the Capital of the Southern Province...

Maybe I should take an informal poll during the "Transition period":

Do you favor having all 3 "Ring 1" Cities in the Capital Province, or distributing the "Ring 1" cities between 3 Provinces, or perhaps a middling option (Furuyama + Immo , Immo + Zojoji, Furuyama + Zojoji) (Or Abstain)
 
I think it's too early to think up more than teo provinces. Rather a boundary should be established between Zarnia and Six Diamonds as the first thing we do. We aren't assured of any land yet by the looks of it (I maybe be wrong, I am new to Japanatica), so we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves.
 
Before we do anything like run a poll on this, I believe everyone who has posted a map make sure that is what they want presented in a poll. We also need more discussion here. Let's hold off on any polling until we're sure that people have had their say.

I'm happy with my map, btw.
 
Updated map showing my proposal in light of new developments.

The Purple Border would be the one effective immediatly upon approval. Zarnia would be the Northern Province with the Captial at Fanatikku.

The Dashed Yellow Lines would be future Provincial Borders that can be negotiated. The thin yellow shape represents a disputed zone dependant on where (or whether) a city is settled in that region. Zarnia would still be defined as the Province with Fanatikku in it.

Oh, and, BTW, as Domestic Minister, I would be the one to say, "Ready, Poll!"
 

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Okay, with me off for Labor Day, I have finally gone over the sum of the proposals.

First, for those wanting text, here is a general listing of the Cities per Province in each proposal, as I understand it. While Governors can choose their own "Capitals", (except in the case of Zarnia (Fanatikku),) I have bolded the most likely choice IMO, and if there are two equal choices, I have put an asterisk by the likelies.


Cyc: Centra Provincia

Zarnia: Fanatikku, Furuyama, Zojoji, Immo, "Blue"
South: Epolenep*, Regent*, "Red/Orange", Akkad, Eridu, Ellipi, Neapolis
East: Shorin-Ryu*, Odawara*, Corrino, "Yellow", [red]Antium, Rome, Pompei[/red], [yellow]Intombe[/yellow]
North: Osgiliath, "green", "pink", [yellow]Isandhlwana, Mpondo[/yellow]

Nothing "Unorganized"
East would be upgraded to a full Province Immediately, South requires 1 more city. North would be temporarily administered by Zarnia, as would South until it gets that extra city.


Chieftess: Rue Zarnia 1

Zarnia: Fanatikku, Actually, Every Japatanician City except Regent, "Yellow", "Pink". Also add [blue]Eridu, Akkad, [yellow]Hlobane, Neapolis

Unorganized Cities: Regent, "Yellow", "Pink"


Sir Donald III: Cut of the Pie

Zarnia: Fanatikku, Immo, Shorin-Ryu, Corrino, "blue"; Odawra, "yellow" Antium, Rome, Pompei, [yellow]Intombe[/yellow]
South: Furuyama, Epolenep, "Red/Orange", [blue]Akkad, Eridu[/blue], [red]Neapolis[/red]; Regent, [blue]Ellipi[/blue], [red]Pisae[/red]
North: Zojoji, Osgiliath, "green", "pink", [yellow]Holbane[/yellow]

Nothing disputed. Cities listed after semi-colons will be in future divisions later on.
Nothing "unorganized"
South would become a full Province Immediately. North would require 1 more city.


Provolution: The Original Trio

Zarnia: Fanatikku, Zojoji, Osgiliath, Immo, Shorin-Ryu, Corrino, "green", [yellow]Hlobane
Wastelands: Odawara, "Blue", "Yellow", [yellow]Intombe[/yellow], [red]Pisae, Pompei, Rome[/red]
Rokubishi: Furuyama, Epolenep, Rgenet, [blue]Akkad, Elippi[/blue], [red]Neapolis[/red]

Disputed between Zarnia & Wastelands: "Red/Orange", [blue]Erudi[/blue]
Unorganized: "Pink"
Roku would become a full Province immediately. East would require 1 more city.


Blackheart: Northern Expansion

Zarnia: Fanatikku, Zojoji, Immo, Shorin-Ryu, Corrino
Rokubishi: Furuyama, Epolenep, Rgenet, Odawra, "Red/Orange", "Blue", [blue]Akkad, Eridu, Elippi[/blue], [red]Neapolis[/red]
Northern Territory: Osgiliath, "green", "pink"

Nothing Disputed.
Unorganized: "Yellow"

Roku would become a Province immediately. North would be administered by Zarnia.


Epimethius: Boxville

Zarnia: Fanatikku, Immo, Zojoji, Shorin-Ryu, Corrino
Highlands: Furuyama, Epolenep, [blue]Akkad[/blue]
Steppe: Odawara*, Regent, "yellow", [red]Neapolis[/red]

Disputed:
"Red/Orange", [blue]Eridu[/blue] (South vs East)
"Blue" (Zarnia vs East)

Unorganized: Osgiliath, "green", "Pink"

No new Provinces would be in effect immediately. Each one requires 1 more city.


Rik Meleet: Rue Zarina North

Zarina: Fanatikku, Zojoi, Osgiliath, Shorin-Ryu, Corrino, "Green", [yellow]Hlobane[/yellow]
Externia (Unorganized): Furuyama*, Immo*, Epolenep, Regent, Odawara, "Red/Orange", "Blue", "Yellow"; "Pink"

Provinces would be created immediately. While Pink is totally unconnected to "Externia", it would be administered by Externia's Governor under this Proposal.


Lastly, I have created this nice piece of Artwork, with the help of French Traders.

Red = Cyc
Orange = Rik Meleet
Yellow = Chieftess
Green = Sir Donald
Light Blue = Blackheart
Dark Blue = Provolution
Purple = Epimethius

For those who think it's a bit much, I am also linking to a zip file containing the 7 individual proposals.
 

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SD3:
Thank you for the effort in combining all plans and maps.
Unfortunately you have placed my orange-lines in the wrong location. My borders folow the rivers closely, but your collection put them in a completely different location.

For your comfort I repeat my map here. I'd appreciate it if you would do the effort of updating my border-proposal correctly.

 
I think we're in for a nice map trading session next turn (provided we get France's world map, and a few others), so we'll have lots of land to decide on. We'll also have an idea of the size of the continent. That way, we can determine how many cities to have per province. If it's small, maybe 5 cities. If it's larger, maybe 10.
 
Rik: I know. I had adjusted the lines to conform to the Radaii of the Cities on each side of the line. The Reason that the Southern border is so far North in 1 half, and so far South in the other, is that Fanatikku is within your specified border, but Immo is not. Therefore, I had added the land in Fanatikku's City Radius, but removed the land in Immo's. If more cities are added in the "Border Region", the Provincial Border would shift.

The zip file has the actual proposals and the modifications for City Radaii for each proposal. Red is the initial suggestion, Purple accounts for City Radaii.
 
Same with my prposed Province on the combined map, SD3. You extended the SE edge further SE beyond the lake. That is not what I wanted. Although the zipped map looks OK. But how many people are going to download the zip?

When we get new maps, can you please redo the combined map? Centra Provincia was only to have the Capital and the surrounding 3 cities. :)
 
I'm not happy with the editting of my proposal. I had a long thought about it and drew the borders they way I want them. If you want to change the borders; fine; but do not block my proposal from enterring the vote.

Don't get me wrong; I think it is ok to take my map as a starting point for some-one else's adaptations, but I do not think it is ok to then disregard my map.
 
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