Prussia and Wargaming

Hamilton321

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Ah, the favorite past time of nerdy men, sitting down with other nerdy men, (whether in person or online) and playing a wargame. Today we take war games for granted, there are numerous variants of wargames which vary widely in complexity, duration, difficulty and scale. Many simple, popular board games emphasize a specific element of war and can be completed in a single day. Stratego emphasizes the fog of war. Risk emphasizes chance and stages of war with rapid and dramatic changes in the balance of power. Other more obscure board games such as The Battle of Fontenoy: 11 May, 1745 and The Campaign for North Africa go to great lengths to simulate all elements of real-life war strategy.

But where and when did war games come from? Prior to the nineteenth century there was no such thing as the modern wargame genre. There were two variants of wargame, but neither of them resemble anything modern. One was chess and the numerous variants of chess. The second was custom made wargames for Prussian royalty. These were incredibly elaborate and expensive games which took months to produce.

The first game which did not fit into one of these categories came into existence in the immediate aftermath of the Napoleonic wars. During the Napoleonic Wars, Prussia's performance was embarrassing: Prussia failed to raise professional armies as large as Austria, France, Russia or Britain. It failed to produce enough ammunition to supply its own armies, Prussia was invaded by Napoleon and was reduced to a mere rump of its former power with large amounts of its territory partitioned to Napoleonic puppet states.

Prussia did not forget its humiliations at the hands of Napoleon and was determined to reform its military, therefore the Prussian government pursued every possible military innovation with incredible zeal. This is the scenario which allowed the first modern wargame to enter the scene. In 1824, captain Reisswitz presented Kregsspiel, a revised version of a wargame previously designed by his father for the king of Prussia. and this 1824 edition was the godfather of all modern war games.

The version by Reisswitz Jr. was less elaborate in appearance, yet it introduced many radical concepts which would forever change wargaming. This edition of the wargame was the first ever game to have; a hit-point system, a simulation of the fog of war, a realistic simulation of terrain, flexible and often unequal starting situations, an umpire to mediate, dice to determine the damage units did in combat, it was a board game that could reproduce realistic combat scenarios and it was easy to produce like chess, allowing it to be distributed publicly. The Prussian military saw this game as a significant military innovation and adopted Kriegsspiel as part of its officer training programs. At one point every regiment in the Prussian army had a Kriegsspiel set. Kriegsspiel was followed by other wargames which were used by the Prussian officer corps to recreate realistic war situations.

In the late 1860s and early 1870s, Prussia seemed invincible; through a series of diplomatic and military triumphs they shocked the world and became the dominant power of continental Europe. The rest of Europe raced to adopt Prussian military reforms. One of these was Prussian wargames, which were studied by many scholars, particularly in England. This led to the development of a plethora of new games which adopted many of the elements first introduced by the 1824 edition of Kriegsspiel and some of these aspects became cornerstones of all modern war games.
 
Well, I don't know what the discussion point is, but that was all very interesting!
 
Indeed ! If I could travel back in time I would love to sit down to play a Krieg(war)Spiel(game) with Carl Von Clausewitz sipping Shnapps alnd talking about tactics ! I love board games. Wonder if Kreigspiel is still on sale somewhere. Closest board game that I've played recently (might be similar to Kriegsspiel) is "Command & Colors: Napoleonics"

Looks like that :
Spoiler Box shot :

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And the board looks like this :

Spoiler Large picture :
highres_450008705.jpeg
 
I play Europa Universalist IV and Prussian Terminators are a thing.
 
Ah, the favorite past time of nerdy men, sitting down with other nerdy men, (whether in person or online) and playing a wargame.
You are aware that there are women on this forum, right? And that we play Civ, Risk, Diplomacy, Kingmaker (an old board game about the War of the Roses), chess, and of course the original Civilization board game that pre-dates the very first Civ game? (the only game I mentioned in this list that I don't play is chess; I've played all the others) The Dune board game is basically a wargame/game of economics, depending on which faction you play. I've had that game for decades, and really enjoy it.

:huh:

Please join the 20th century, never mind the 21st.

But where and when did war games come from? Prior to the nineteenth century there was no such thing as the modern wargame genre. There were two variants of wargame, but neither of them resemble anything modern. One was chess and the numerous variants of chess. The second was custom made wargames for Prussian royalty. These were incredibly elaborate and expensive games which took months to produce.
So the scene in I, Claudius where Augustus was playing a war game with his grandsons was just made-up modern crap? Admittedly I'm not up on ancient wargames, but I'm familiar with one or two ancient board games (senet, for one).
 
I'm pretty sure that Prussia invented war :lol:, after all it was their national industry as the saying goes ;)
 
In 1958 my dad gave me a copy of Avalon Hill's Gettysburg. This was the first board game I am aware of that depicted a historical battle that was for sale at retail.
Charles S Roberts said:
Gettysburg was selected as a subject because of the upcoming Civil War Centennial, a wise choice because the celebration was widely publicized. Gettysburg, by the by, was notable because it was the first modern historic wargame. More ruefully, it was also the first and last wargame to be introduced with no playtesting whatsoever, an omission which plagued it through numerous futile redesigns. However, it sold very well and in spite of its flaws has to be counted as a successful title.

I quickly bought (or was given) Tactics II, a more general war game that was fought between Big Red and Big Blue. These two games laid the foundation for the surge in board war games during the late 60s and 70s.

Tactics is a board wargame published in 1954, and the predecessor to Tactics II.[2]Primitive by modern standards, it was nonetheless the birth of modern wargaming, and generally credited as being the first commercially successful board wargame.

A few years ago I sold my huge collection of wargames that dated back to the 1960s and had games sold up through the late 1980s. I was a painful process because of all the hours I had spent playing them. I kept a few including one that I designed and was published in the 80s.
 
So the scene in I, Claudius where Augustus was playing a war game with his grandsons was just made-up modern crap? Admittedly I'm not up on ancient wargames, but I'm familiar with one or two ancient board games (senet, for one).
Yes.

I saw a really good youtube video about this recently:


Which then leads up to a video which basically is the same as OP:

 
In 1958 my dad gave me a copy of Avalon Hill's Gettysburg. This was the first board game I am aware of that depicted a historical battle that was for sale at retail.

Chancellorsville pre-dated it, but it lacked Gettysburg's innovate hexes and wasn't very good. Gettysburg was followed by D-Day, which was glorious. I made a practice of buying all Avalon Hill games.

A few years ago I sold my huge collection of wargames that dated back to the 1960s and had games sold up through the late 1980s. I was a painful process because of all the hours I had spent playing them. I kept a few including one that I designed and was published in the 80s.

I was spared that painful process because when I went away to college, my parents trashed my collection. :cry:
 
Chancellorsville pre-dated it, but it lacked Gettysburg's innovate hexes and wasn't very good. Gettysburg was followed by D-Day, which was glorious. I made a practice of buying all Avalon Hill games.
You are remembering a later version of Gettysburg. AH's first three games were: Tactics, Gettysburg, and Tactics II. Read the wiki links from my posts above. I too bought all the games they made in the early 60s. D-Day was superb! Their success launched S&T magazine and all their fabulous games.
 
I'm pretty sure that Prussia invented war :lol:, after all it was their national industry as the saying goes ;)

Now that the US is encouraging Germany to rebuild Panzer Divisions again, I want to remind Germany to bring winter clothing BEFORE invading.
 
Their success launched S&T magazine and all their fabulous games.

When I got deathly ill, a friend brought over his back issues. My favorite was Fall of Rome, a solitaire game. The player commanded the Romans in battling invading barbarians and mutinous legions, who moved towards Rome according to strict rules.

The barbarians lost half their strength each turn as their men deserted to become farmers. I loved the "barbarian bribe phase" wherein the player could bribe the barbarians to stand in place. This meant (a) the barbarians would lose half their strength, and (b) if circumstance were right, a rival band of barbarians would crash into them and they'd fight.
 
@Zkribbler The sheer number of games published in the 70s and 80s was extraordinary. I particularly liked the Napoleonic and ancient. When the la Battaille series came out I was in heaven.
 
Now that the US is encouraging Germany to rebuild Panzer Divisions again, I want to remind Germany to bring winter clothing BEFORE invading.
My I had a German ex. She was high maintenance always wanted dates in Paris and Moscow.
 
The Prussian approach to Kriegsspiele was actually pretty neat. Here's one example. Nineteenth century officers in pretty much every country loved to waste money gambling, and the Prussians were no exception. Significant sums of money (for them, anyway) would ride on the outcomes of many of these Kriegsspiele, more than mere bragging rights. (Although, by all accounts, bragging rights were nearly as important then as they are for athletes and gamers now.)

When war games became more popular in the late nineteenth century, the Prussian Great General Staff had to up its game, as it were, instituting a series of Generalstabsreisen (General Staff rides). Modern soldiers view the staff ride as a teaching tool to discuss warfare in the past, but under the Moltkes, Waldersee, and Schlieffen, the German Generalstabsreise comprised a vast tactical and strategic war game, sometimes with multiple players attempting different solutions of the same problem at the same time. Play would require dozens of officers and the Chief of the General Staff himself would write the exercise critiques. One author has described the prewar German Generalstabsreisen as the apogee of wargaming; few modern armies have ever exercised on such a scale and so consistently as did the Germans before 1914.
The player commanded the Romans in battling invading barbarians and mutinous legions, who moved towards Rome according to strict rules.
gross
 
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I am very pleased with the interest people have shown in this thread. My opening post of this thread got more likes than every other post I've ever uploaded here combined, so that is pretty exciting for me. I actually changed the title of the thread before I posted it, originally I wanted to call this thread; Napoleonic Wars and Wargaming and talk more about the Napoleonic Wars, but I took out some of the Napoleonic stuff so that I could focus more on the main subject and instead decided to focus more on Prussia because they were the ones leading the development of modern wargaming. Another thing I want to note is that I actually watched the second Invicta video in cheetah's post a few days before posting this. I would have noted it as a source but I didn't remember what the video was called.
 
I would appreciate an answer to the question I asked in my post. Are you aware that there are women on this forum who play war games? Your "nerdy men" phrasing is ignoring the female members here.
 
I would appreciate an answer to the question I asked in my post. Are you aware that there are women on this forum who play war games? Your "nerdy men" phrasing is ignoring the female members here.
I am not really the best at being sensitive to people and my nerdy men phrasing was not meant as an insult to females. I am a nerdy man and not a female so I do not really know what females like. I just was saying that wargames are something that many nerdy men find in common. However, to directly answer your question; of course I know that the people who play wargames and violent games are not exclusively male and I know females who like games about fighting and strategy, in fact my girlfriend and cousin both enjoy Assassin's Creed which is more violent than anything I play regularly.

Please join the 20th century, never mind the 21st.
Ironically, I am probably the only person to post on this thread born in the 21st:mischief:
 
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