Public Investigation #6: Chat Poll Ignored (guilty/unguilty)

[Shaitan]

Chieftess, you've made a grammatical misinterpretation. The vote is tallied and carried immediately. There is no directive that the action determined by the poll must be carried out immediately. If Donsig plays the chat turn on Sunday and progresses the game without following the results of a valid poll, he will be in violation. Right now, he has not violated anything.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Shaitan
If Donsig plays the chat turn on Sunday and progresses the game without following the results of a valid poll, he will be in violation. Right now, he has not violated anything.

The only problem, is that a poll was never posted on whether to make these trades. I posted the discussion thread, but it should be the trade department's responsibility to post the poll. I am not happy that this did not occur, as it has denied non chat attending citizens the right to vote on this issue.

 

[donsig]

Also, the spot vote was on whether to *sell medicine*. We made no vote on who to sell it to. With the current war between the Iroquois and Greece & India, we should take foreign policy into account when selling medicine. Boycotting the discussion of selling medicine has brought us to the point where we will have to have a spot vote unless instructions are posted in the turn chat thread.

 

[Cyc]

Are you guys on drugs....? Whatever it is yer smokin' make sure the trade dept. get hold of some.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Cyc
Are you guys on drugs....? Whatever it is yer smokin' make sure the trade dept. get hold of some.

I can't speak for everyone else but I'm not on anything stronger than caffiene.

 

[Cyc]

Me too!

 

[disorganizer]

DOM: so take care of the investigations yourself in the future. will you?
please deown the coresponding threads of my nick as i will refuse to do any work on these issues any more.
tnx

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I said I will post the polls in the future since they are not being done properly. Anyone who brings forth an issue can still create a discussion thread about it and then, if needed, I will post the poll.

It has been mentioned before that this subject needs to be done impartially and this is the second time is has not happened. If you choose to not partake in these discussions, then I am sorry that it is something that you feel is necessary for you to do.

 

[Shaitan]

This poll has been nagging at me since I first saw it on Saturday. We're trying our elected president and he doesn't even get the benefit of an impartial poll.

I move that this poll be stricken and a new poll started in the correct format (Innocent/Guilty/Abstain).

 

[disorganizer]

Well, i dont get exactly what is impartial at the poll, but i dont care any more. Do what you like.

 

[Rain]

While i appreciate the semantic debate ongoing here i don't think i'll waste words on it....


I advocate impeachment if a guilty verdict is reached.

 

[Chieftess]

Don't tell me this poll is being afflicted by the "It's not going my way!" syndrome.

 

[Immortal]

actually the poll seems quite impartial, as it clearly states the focus of the investigation, whether Donsig violated the spot-vote rules, which he did. Asking: Is Donsig guilty of violating the constitution, leaves the situation open for interpretation of what the rules means, this poll focuses on what the focus has been: Did Donsig ignore the results of the spot vote, and that seems to be the question above.

Chieftess: I'll leave that decision up to you

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Immortal
actually the poll seems quite impartial, as it clearly states the focus of the investigation, whether Donsig violated the spot-vote rules, which he did.

But there is no crime if he did not violate the constitution. Considering the closeness of this poll, I think the punishment should be minimal.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Originally posted by eyrei


But there is no crime if he did not violate the constitution. Considering the closeness of this poll, I think the punishment should be minimal.

Exactly.

If we are going to start slamming our President's whenever they take action that is in the consensus best interests of the people, we are going to have very few quality presidents around in the future.

This is why I urged all citizen to consider the constitutional context of the situation here, and not just the loaded wording of this poll.

Bill
...in PDX

 

[Cyc]

It appears so, Chieftess. Not that I agree with Rain. I don't believe impeachment is the appropriate punishment. But this "I'm gonna take my football and go home" stuff has got to stop. We held a poll, it lasted 4 days (i think) and now that's it over you want to disallow it. Even the people who were backing the President declared his actions to be in violation of the Constitution. Now it's just turned into a power struggle or popularity contest.
Of course, Shaitan could just be stating his opinion, which he has the right to do. I just get a little nervous when one of the big three power brokers in this game tries a sweeping move to clear the efforts of the populace.This appears to be a travesty of justice. Maybe a quick word from the Duke would help.

 

[Immortal]

He violated the rules of the spot vote, a constitutional amendment you voted to implement. How does it mean he did not violate the constitution?

Bill: To do so would mean everything should be interpreted, making the constituion essentially worthless, this trial is not about "the best interests of the people" it is about rules, rules we have (whether we like them or not) and rules that must be followed (once again, like it or not). DOing otherwise is a direct violation of these rules and requires punishment.

 

[Shaitan]

I'll have to remember what I wrote there in case another thread ever needs a jump start.

Disorganizer - I'm not worried about the poll itself, just the wording of it. It does not read as an impartial statement to me.

Rain - I am a semantic fool. I love the language and I know the power that different words have. The exact same sentiment or statement can be made with thousands of combinations of words. Similarly, a given statement can have an undercurrent that is quite contrary to its surface reading. That's why the wording of this poll bothers me.

Chieftess - Many, many things don't go my way. I'm married so I've grown used to it.

Cyc - I don't understand the football adage. Unless that wasn't directed at me? I never said I was going to quit over this. Unfortunately I didn't see the discussion or poll until late Saturday night. It bothered me then and continued bothering me until today when I let everybody know why. It wasn't intended to be a last minute monkey wrench in the gears thing - just my opinion. I know that my work on the constitution and terms in office can give my words more weight than others. I've been working my way further and further into the background of the game, trying to become a supporting player instead of a lead, so I won't unduly influence things. However, when something is going on that I truly think is unjust and unwarranted I've got to speak up.

Immortal - I do not think he violated the constitution. I've posted it a couple of times now. He did not take any action to violate the spot vote. He terminated the game with the issue open. It is still open (or was, until last night's chat turn). If he had taken another game turn and done something contrary to the spot vote, that would have been a violation.

 

[Immortal]

That's the real sticking point shaitan, is having the poll, then not implementing it a violation of the rule? Or is it only a violation if he has the poll then acts otherwise.

In my opinion, those two things are one and the same, going against a spot poll and not-implementing a spot poll are the same thing to me. that is why I voted guilty.

Also Eyrei- Even though the vote is 12-9, 52% of the people vote in favour of finding the president guilty, if it were say 48% guilty, 40% not guilty and 12% abstain you would have a good point in your statement. But with a majority of the opinion of finding guilty, the punishment may be more visible

 

[Rain]

Originally posted by Shaitan


Cyc - I don't understand the football adage.

I think he simply is referring to the practice of ignoring/overturning results that don't lead to the desired outcome which was alleged in the chat and he is alleging it in context of this poll being halted, if that were to occur.