Public Investigation: People vs. Chieftess, Part III

[naervod]

Charge: Violation of CoL: D.1.C

This charges Chieftess with violating COL D.1.C. In last night's t/c, Chieftess, as DP, ignored my Build Queue Instructions for the city of Valhalla and did not change the Rifleman to an Aqueduct. I had made special effort to get this change put into action as the Domestic Leader, Donovan Zoi and myself have had extesive discussion on the matter. The change was to help facilitate DZ's Size 12 Plan, which won over-whelming approval in the polls. Chieftess followed the other build queue instructions for The North Province, but ignored Valhalla, which was second on the list. As COL D.1.C states, I am the one to organize build queues for the cities in my Province, not her. She violated this law when she ignored my instructions and did what she wanted.

Turn Chat Instruction Thread for Feb. 11th

Below is a picture showing the rifleman still in production at Valhalla. The year is 1200ad. Take special note that Chieftess is putting down railroad tracks on irrigated grasslands by Kuhkaff, spurring growth, contrary to my instructions of minimal growth.

Additional Evidence Provided by Donovan Zoi

Instance #1
During the last two turnchats, Governor SaaM(Taliesin) and I have agreed to hold off on building a University in New PDX. Our reasoning for this is due to the possibility of moving the city one square to maximise its growth. Plus it would give us an opportunity to quickly add a rifleman to one of our outlying cities.

SaaM then posted in the February 8th turnchat instructions to switch production from the University to rifles. Thankfully that chat only lasted through the preturn as his first request was ignored. This forced me to have SaaM repeat this directive on February 11th. Unfortunately, the instruction was ignored yet again and a University was built, thereby making the movement of New PDX and even tougher sell than it would have been. We also lost the opportunity to build a much-needed rifleman.

Instance #2

Same set of circumstances, although this one was thankfully corrected the second time around.

In Plexenburg, Governor Cheetah and I had agreed to build a University there in lieu of the Cavalry currently being built. Long story short, this instruction was ignored the first time but adhered to the next. (side note: an instruction for tile optimization in Leckopolis was also ignored the first time around; I don't have the details on whether this was changed last turnchat.) And once again, it was the shortened turnchat the first time that allowed us to get it right the second time.

I am going to PM the Public Defender (Octavian X) and the Defendant (Chieftess) notifying them of the charges brought against President Chieftess.

As always, the first two posts are reserved for the Public Defender and the defendant. If they do not post their defense here in 24 hours, this thread is open for discussion.

This thread will be closed and a trial poll will commence after the discussion has lasted for at least 48 hours and also petered out.

 

[Chieftess]

I honestly thought I had changed it to an acqueduct. I go through each province, city by city. With 50 cities, it's easy to miss one when you've got a bunch of instructions. But, it can still be changed to an aqueduct at no loss.

Instance 1 - Riflemen would have wasted 19 IIRC. I did not see a discussion about this, nor did you or stuck contact me personally about this. So, I called a council vote, which was well within my rights.

 

[Octavian X]

Cyc's accusation is true. There was no council vote to override the aquaduct. However, considering the circumstances, there is no reason to be concerned about this event.

These actions were simply an oversight. I can speak from previous experiences as DP. Juggling a chat window and 50 cities is by no means an easy task. The only peeple who may cast stones because this instance are those who can manage 50+ cities WTIHOUT making a mistake. In any case, the cities incurred no damage or loss of sheilds. I have just been informed Valhalla's production was just switched to aquaduct, with no loss of accumulated sheilds.

Because myslef and Chieftess have posted our repective defensives, the public is now invited to comment.

 

[Cyc]

I'm sorry, with the bullying type of procedure that Chieftess has displayed in the past and during this term, I refuse to see this as an oversight. The people must take his in context of all the other violations that chieftess has done as a DP. She feels she can do what she wants when she wants, and this is not the way of a DP. There are procedures to follow, and Chieftess has ignored this one. This was just a snub on The North Province, daring me to initiate a PI. As she was already ignoring worker requests and laborer allocations, this was just the icing on the cake. The gaul of a DP to blatantly ignore build queues should be punished to the fullest extent.

 

[Veera Anlai]

I disagree Cyc. There is no reason to believe that our President has single handedly singled you out, and claiming that this accident was intentional simply because you think she doesn't like you *certainly* isn't substantial evidence.

 

[Cyc]

You see, Veera, you're not looking at the whole picture. If Chieftess had just overlooked a build queue instruction, I wouldn't have a problem here as it would be correctable. But inlight of her ignoring all my attempts at communication, ignoring all my worker requests, and ignoring my laborer allocations for Kuhkaff, and the fact that this has been a public issue since the begining of the term, I see this as a slight by the President. A full frontal flash of "Here, take this, Cyc! What are you going to do now, start a PI?" It is obvious to me that is was on purpose. I seriously doubt that chieftess is too dense to realize the importance of keeping all her ducks lined up at this time when it comes to The North Province.

 

[Octavian X]

I agree with Veera. This oversight could have happend to anyone. I sincerely doubt she would pick on someone, and be a moderator at the same time.

Also, what do you mean by "bullying type of procedeure," cyc?

 

[Cyc]

As I have pointed out numerous times, Octavian X, her standard approach to my involvement as an official goes back to DG1, where she shunt the growth of other cities I was attached to. I called her on it there and was successful in getting her actions reversed publicly with the help of donsig. Now in this game she is doing the same thing, although maybe in a different manner. Refusal to communicate with a Governor publically that makes repeated attempts to discuss things is, (or should be...) the first sign. Ignoring requests and build queues during game play would be another. You are giving the President way too much leeway in her dealings with other areas of the game. Maybe bullying was an incorrect term to use, but as she is the president, she could be seen as the big boy on the block. And the way she does what ever she wants in my Province without regard to what I say, while she is the President led me to use that term.

 

[Strider]

Cyc's Govonor Thread 2nd post- posted by Cyc
As of now, the new proposed build queues are:

Kuhkaff - Military Academy (c).
.................Please continue mining in hills and irrigate the plains
Valhalla - Aqueduct, Frigate, Bank.
.................One of the grasslands SW of town need to be mined.
Naerva - Harbor(c), Worker, Temple.
.................Needs grassland irrigated.
Gunningheim - Temple(c), Worker, Marketplace.
.................Needs southern forest cleared and irrigated.
Androbius - Library(c), Settler, Aqueduct.
Riga - Library(c), Granary, Barracks.
Dapperdan - Harbor(c), Granary, Marketplace.
Columbia - Library

Feb 11th T/C instruction thread- Posted by Cyc
Build Queues:

Kuhkaff - Military Academy
Valhalla - Change to Aqueduct, Frigate, Bank
Naerva - Harbor, Temple, Marketplace
Gunningheim - Temple, Marketplace
Androbius - Library, Worker, Aqueduct
Riga - Library, Granary, Barracks
Dapperdan - Harbor, Granary, Barracks
Columbia - Library, Harbor
New City - Library

Saturday, Feb 8th T/C instruction thread, Post #7 -by Cyc
Kuhkaff - Military Academy (c).
.................Please continue mining in hills and irrigate the plains
Valhalla - Rifleman(c), Frigate, Bank.
Naerva - Harbor(c), Worker, Temple.
.................Needs grassland irrigated.
Gunningheim - Temple(c), Worker, Marketplace.
.................Needs southern forest cleared and irrigated.
Androbius - Library(c), Settler, Aqueduct.
Riga - Library(c), Granary, Barracks.
.................Move laborer from grassland to mined grassland.
Dapperdan - Harbor, Granary, Marketplace.
.................Move both laborers from the coastline to the forests.
Columbia - Library

Wednesday, Feb. 5th T/C instruction thread, Post #2- by cyc
Kuhkaff - Military Academy (c).
.................Please continue mining in hills and irrigate the plains
Valhalla - Settler (c), Rifleman, Aqueduct.
Naerva - Cavalry (c), Harbor, Worker, Temple.
.................Needs grassland irrigated.
Gunningheim - Library, Temple, Worker, Marketplace.
.................Needs southern forest cleared and irrigated.
Androbius - Library, Settler, Aqueduct.
Riga - Library, Granary, Barracks.
Dapperdan - Harbor, Granary, Marketplace.
.................Move both laborers from the coastline to the forests.

Please micromanage for growth after each Settler or Worker. Kuhkaff should be kept on max production.

As far as I can tell.... Cyc is requesting for growth rather than minimal growth. As stated here in the first post of this thread:

Below is a picture showing the rifleman still in production at Valhalla. The year is 1200ad. Take special note that Chieftess is putting down railroad tracks on irrigated grasslands by Kuhkaff, spurring growth, contrary to my instructions of minimal growth.

 

[GenMarshall]

While all this was Going on, I have done a little research in the 3 Books and found something:

From COL, 1, G
[The President] Organizes worker activities.

From COL, D, 1, E
A governor organizes tile development in his province.

IMO, the above Rule Set (COL, D, 1, E) is open for Interpritation since this could be the lead cause for the Confusion. ( There should be a Judicial Revew on this )

From COL, C, 2, E.
Some departmental powers and responsibilities overlap. If overlap should cause the creation of non-complementary plans, departmental precedence will be determined by rank in the Chain of Command.

 

[Veera Anlai]

[Edit]
**Cough** Nevermind. Nothing to see here, move on, apologies to spam haters!
[/Edit]

 

[Plexus]

Apology accepted.

 

[Octavian X]

@CivGeneral: A judicial review IS in progress. Please, contribute!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44538

 

[donsig]

That judicial review has nothing to do with the charges brought in this PI. This is about a governor's build queue not being implemented. Chieftess and the PD both agree that the queue was not implemented. I'll have to vote quilty on this one.

Now, was it a simple over sight and if so should this be taken into acount when deciding punishment? I'll address the latter first. I feel justified in speaking to this matter because I was President in term 3 of DG1 at a time when Phoenatica was starting to build rails. Phoenatica did not have as many cities as Fanatika does but there was a considerable number. I do not recall any problems implementing build queues in all the cities. If one goes through the turn chat instructions and opens each city listed one after the other there is no way to miss any. Oversight of such things by the person we elected to our highest office is not acceptable. We should hand out a punishment that will ensure future oversights do not occur.

Was this a simple oversight? I am not sure. I quess I'd like to know how many other oversights there have been. Apparently instance #1 was not an oversight as a council vote was called. Chieftess has been mute on instance #2. The more oversights there are the more inclined I am to think that Chieftess is unfit to run such a large country.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

Given an admission of guilt. I too would have to vote guilty.

I am cognizant of Cyc's well founded frustration with this process.

However, I do not personally have any experience now, or in the past, working with CT that would indicate a pattern of these mistakes that would require any time of serious punishment.

 

[Shaitan]

This PI is spurious and should be dismissed. As with several other of these PI's the charge that Chieftess could have violated is not following posted instructions. It is simply not possible for anybody except Cyc to have violated this law in the North Province.

Additionally, launching 6 separate PI's is both ridiculous and counterproductive. As we have already seen it is causing confusion and disruption. The workable precedent for multiple charges for a single infraction is to try all of the charges in a single PI. The current situation is untenable and impossible to follow in any constructive manner. As such I will not be boycotting these PI's in their entirety after this post, including unsubscribing from this thread. It will be necessary for people to use the report post function to notify me of forum abuses if they happen as I will not see them through direct monitoring.

 

[Cyc]

Originally posted by Shaitan
This PI is spurious and should be dismissed. As with several other of these PI's the charge that Chieftess could have violated is not following posted instructions. It is simply not possible for anybody except Cyc to have violated this law in the North Province.

Additionally, launching 6 separate PI's is both ridiculous and counterproductive. As we have already seen it is causing confusion and disruption. The workable precedent for multiple charges for a single infraction is to try all of the charges in a single PI. The current situation is untenable and impossible to follow in any constructive manner. As such I will not be boycotting these PI's in their entirety after this post, including unsubscribing from this thread. It will be necessary for people to use the report post function to notify me of forum abuses if they happen as I will not see them through direct monitoring.

I get your point, Shaitan....

You will NOT be boycotting these PI's. You only have to tell me once.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
This PI is spurious and should be dismissed. As with several other of these PI's the charge that Chieftess could have violated is not following posted instructions. It is simply not possible for anybody except Cyc to have violated this law in the North Province.

Note the following was also posted in CT-PI#2.

Our CoL and CoS are meant to define and interpret our constitution. They are not meant to act as a work-around for what is established in the constitution. They have the weight of the constitution behind them. Failing to follow a leader's posted instructions (without an otherwise legal over-ride) is indeed a violation of the CoL clause that defines the leader's authority to post the instruction in the first place.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I believe that CT is guilty of this PI. Punishment is another issue as I feel a warning is warrented at most.

However, under the Shaitan interpretation, we need to dismiss this one, and file yet another one for the Constitutional violations. But wait, filing too many PI's for one violation is wrong too... This is all circular logic.

 

[Cyc]

Obviously, I agree, but with the treatment that The North province has received of late, I will still have to consider how I will vote in the punishment poll.