Public Investigation: People vs. Octavian X

[naervod]

Octavian X has been charged with violating CoL: C.2G.7 (Military Department)

Can supercede a provincial build queue with military units or improvements during time of invasion.
Invasion is the presence of offensive troops belonging to a country we are at war with inside the borders of the province to be superceded.

Evidence has been provided by donsig in the Judiciary thread and may be read there It will also be posted here after the Public Defender(Shaitan) and defendant (Octavian X) have posted defense or they have not replied for 24 hours.

 

[Octavian X]

I will state that first off, I acknowledge there was a breech of the law. The cities where production were changed were producing cavalry, and the change was to musketmen. No production was lost. I feel the changes, though they should have been done more formally, were completely justified.

I plead guilty to all charges.

I also humbly request that donsig, who wishes for little reprimand, save us from 8 days' worth of waiting for a simple warning, and withdraw the charge.

 

[Shaitan]

Although Octavian has admitted fault in this case he is actually incorrect. He could not possibly be guilty of breaking this rule as it is a rule specifically applying to the Military Leader and the Military Leader only.

Granted, there was aparent impropriety but if Octavian X is to be held accountable for them he must be charged with breaking a rule that actually applies to him.

I move that this PI be dismissed as having no merit.

 

[naervod]

The Judge Advocate agrees that this PI be dismissed as having no merit.

Also, this thread is officially open for discussion.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Although Octavian has admitted fault in this case he is actually incorrect. He could not possibly be guilty of breaking this rule as it is a rule specifically applying to the Military Leader and the Military Leader only.

Granted, there was aparent impropriety but if Octavian X is to be held accountable for them he must be charged with breaking a rule that actually applies to him.

I move that this PI be dismissed as having no merit.

If this PI is dismissed then I will request another PI of the VP/DP and I will cite the proper section of the Three Books that he violated. I did not realize that it was up to the accuser to do all the legal work. I thought we had a balanced judiciary composed of members who helped both the accused and the accuser through the legal hoops. I am too tired to drag out the Three Books right now.

Legalese aside, a governor's build queues were changed without a legal over-ride. The DP is the responsible party because the buck stops there.

 

[Veera Anlai]

As in the real world Donsig, the burden of proof is on the accuser, and there is no proof that Octavian violated this particular law. I also agree that this charge has no merit.

 

[Falcon02]

I agree, Octavian shouldn't "get off" if I'm not going to... how come the person who "Request" it get's PI'd when the person who actually did it get's off the hook. In fact I was pretty much expecting that someone would ask for a vote, specifically Octavian since it was pretty much just him and me... and I had no problem with that. I requested the changes, and Octavian went ahead with them, next time should I go ahead and initiate my own Council Vote, though it's only supposed to be called by the DP?

 

[Veera Anlai]

Falcon, we have to judge each case on its own merits, not on their relations to other investigations.

 

[Falcon02]

Veera, my point is there shouldn't be a double standard between PI's.

The person who carried out a deed would be guilty as the person who asked for it.

Also, the two PI's are 1 incident, which is why I personally feel they should really be merged into 1. I find splitting them into two threads like this, for a single incident and essentially the same charge, a bit of a waste.

Edit: I half take back that last paragraph, as guilt and punishment of course always have to be concidered seperately.

 

[Veera Anlai]

There is no double standard against the players personally Falcon, just their positions. Octavian is being charged as the DP, and the DP doesn't figure into that law at all. You are being charged as Military Leader, and that law *does* apply to the Military Leader.
Octavian may have violated a law, but it certainly wasn't this one.

The Judiciary Department has come to a consensus that this case has no merit. In accordance with CoS.H.7.A, at least 48 hours must pass before the case is officially dismissed and closed.

 

[Shaitan]

There is also the matter of the DP's duties in this matter. The DP is responsible for carrying out the instructions of the Leaders. Is the DP also required to verify that the instructions given to him are legal? Is the DP accountable when a Leader gives instructions that are not according to the will of the people and the other requirements that they have?

 

[Falcon02]

If I'm not mistaken the DP is the only one who is allowed to call a council vote, therefore it would be his responcibility to call for one.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Veera Anlai
As in the real world Donsig, the burden of proof is on the accuser, and there is no proof that Octavian violated this particular law. I also agree that this charge has no merit.

I don't know what world you live in but in mine when you call the police you don't have to be able to cite the specific law being broken in order to get justice. That is the job of the police and the courts not the citizens.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
There is also the matter of the DP's duties in this matter. The DP is responsible for carrying out the instructions of the Leaders. Is the DP also required to verify that the instructions given to him are legal? Is the DP accountable when a Leader gives instructions that are not according to the will of the people and the other requirements that they have?

Well, that is something we could have discussed in this PI had the Judiciary not decided to throw out the case. In any event, we may still get our chance to do that. A governor's queues were changed without a legal over-ride. I will now request another PI of Octavian X and cite the proper section of the CoL that he violated.

 

[Shaitan]

@donsig - True, but in this game the citizens are also the police, the jury and the legislature.

I recommend consulting with the Judge Advocate to determine what charges should be brought and launching a new PI. It may seem nitpicky and red-tape bound but it's a matter of fairness at its base. If this PI proceeded and Octavian was found guilty of breaking the Military Leader rule it would be a travesty.

 

[Shaitan]

Oops. You posted while I was writing.

 

[donsig]

Originally posted by Shaitan
@donsig - True, but in this game the citizens are also the police, the jury and the legislature.

I recommend consulting with the Judge Advocate to determine what charges should be brought and launching a new PI. It may seem nitpicky and red-tape bound but it's a matter of fairness at its base. If this PI proceeded and Octavian was found guilty of breaking the Military Leader rule it would be a travesty.

New PI requested.

 

[naervod]

This PI has been dropped, a new one will take its place in about 15 to 20 minutes.

 

[Shaitan]

This PI will now resume, under my authority, provisionally upon donsig withdrawing the charges on the PI.

 

[donsig]

I commend the Judicary for reopening this PI.

I know formally ask that the PI be dropped due to the recent ruling that Izibia (and therefore enemy troops) were in fact a part of the Southwest Province at the time General Falcon02 requested the build queues be changed. Since it has been deemed that the military over-ride was legal the Vice-President's actions must also be considered legal.

Once again I offer my apologies to Octavian X.