Shaitan
der Besucher
Brian, we have already done this. Octavian X is scheduled to run an evening chat tomorrow.
Public Investigation - People vs. Shaitan
- Thread starter Danke
- Start date
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
Veera and the Judge Advocate.
What are both your opinions on Charge #3?
What are both your opinions on Charge #3?
Veera Anlai
Southern Belle
I opened this PI on behalf of a group of citizens who had complaints against Shaitan, and as such, I'd prefer to let the Citizens of Fanatika make the decision. It is my belief that as much as Shaitan thought he was doing best for Fanatika, he should be reminded that he is still a servant of the people and subject to their will and opinions, and to be *sure* he is following their wishes beforehand rather than guesstimating.
I'm sure both Shai and I have made our opinions on this matter heard, and I think it's time to let the Citizens end the issue.
I'm sure both Shai and I have made our opinions on this matter heard, and I think it's time to let the Citizens end the issue.
Danke
Judge Advocate
I have no additional comments on charge #3.
Since Veera has asked that the legal process continue, I would like to wait a few hours until the mandated 48-hour period has passed, at which point I will confer with the Chief Justice on next steps.
Since Veera has asked that the legal process continue, I would like to wait a few hours until the mandated 48-hour period has passed, at which point I will confer with the Chief Justice on next steps.
Danke
Judge Advocate
Veera,
Despite the fact that this is *not* the US gov't, you are correct in assuming that we draw heavily on the example set by the Supreme Court.
You will find that in every case where the preamble was invoked (with one exception, noted below) as legal argument a specific law was involved. The preamble was used to maintain whether a *law* was constitutional or not. Much the way we proceed with giving legal opinion here in Fanatika.
This is the one exception from Veera's examples of US constitutional law cited above:
Which completely supports my argument.
All other cases cited were examples of using the preamble's intent to judge the constitutionality of case law. Which is *not* the same as bringing charges against someone based on violating the preamble.
Issuing legal opinion is *not* the same as bringing someone up on charges, and the preamble is vital in the first case, and close to irrelevent in the second.
That's all as I was saying. And yeah, I took Con Law too.
Danke
Judge Advocate
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
Chief Justice Opinion
I feel that in regards to Charge #3, I would not be able to vote for a dismissal on the judicary level.
I think is not so clear cut an issue from either side.
Certainly the President can make decisions during situations where the forums have problems, however, that is not carte blanc for any decision he or she sees fit.
For example, for a forum problem allow the President to declare war at his discretion? I don't think so.
Would a forum problem allow the President to change build queues at his discretion? I think it would.
Somewhere in that spectrum of actions lies the issue of using a Great Leader.
Complicating the issue is the presence of a discussion thread in which the topic was brought up, and there was a general difference of opinion.
On the one hand, my gut feelings is that citizen polling would have resulted in "building an army" winning. On the other though, I note that there were differing opinions, and a poll would have been the eventual result.
Given this quandry, I feel it would be inappropriate for the Judiciary to deny the people their change to express an opinion on this charge.
Therefore, I will not vote for dismissal of this charge, and expect this charge to go to a Trial Vote.
On a personal note, I will be voting NOT GUILTY, but that is a different thing than dismissing the charge as no merit, as I think the charge has sufficient merit to warrent a poll.
I feel that in regards to Charge #3, I would not be able to vote for a dismissal on the judicary level.
I think is not so clear cut an issue from either side.
Certainly the President can make decisions during situations where the forums have problems, however, that is not carte blanc for any decision he or she sees fit.
For example, for a forum problem allow the President to declare war at his discretion? I don't think so.
Would a forum problem allow the President to change build queues at his discretion? I think it would.
Somewhere in that spectrum of actions lies the issue of using a Great Leader.
Complicating the issue is the presence of a discussion thread in which the topic was brought up, and there was a general difference of opinion.
On the one hand, my gut feelings is that citizen polling would have resulted in "building an army" winning. On the other though, I note that there were differing opinions, and a poll would have been the eventual result.
Given this quandry, I feel it would be inappropriate for the Judiciary to deny the people their change to express an opinion on this charge.
Therefore, I will not vote for dismissal of this charge, and expect this charge to go to a Trial Vote.
On a personal note, I will be voting NOT GUILTY, but that is a different thing than dismissing the charge as no merit, as I think the charge has sufficient merit to warrent a poll.
Ok, now for my 2 cents (or gold 
)
While this charge is defeated, I think there were ethical issues in that citizens weren't able to be present incase they wanted to call for a citizen spot vote on an undecided issue...
There's nothing in the law books, but I think it was ethically wrong. (Maybe we need an EI? Ethical Investigation?
). It does seem odd to me in a demogame to play "Judge, Jury and Executioner".
This is one I agree with. Even with the forum outages, the turn chat could have been postponed (as was done in the past), to give time for a poll.
This is exactly why I said have an individual term thread. I made the first post, which was intended as a historical log of the game, not the "official upcoming turnchats"... Besides, I would think it would be easier just to look at a single term thread, to see when the chats are. (which would be good for any announcements, too). Other than that, there's always the forum announcements. That's what they're there for.
)While this charge is defeated, I think there were ethical issues in that citizens weren't able to be present incase they wanted to call for a citizen spot vote on an undecided issue...
There's nothing in the law books, but I think it was ethically wrong. (Maybe we need an EI? Ethical Investigation?
). It does seem odd to me in a demogame to play "Judge, Jury and Executioner".This is one I agree with. Even with the forum outages, the turn chat could have been postponed (as was done in the past), to give time for a poll.
This is exactly why I said have an individual term thread.
I made the first post, which was intended as a historical log of the game, not the "official upcoming turnchats"... Besides, I would think it would be easier just to look at a single term thread, to see when the chats are. (which would be good for any announcements, too). Other than that, there's always the forum announcements. That's what they're there for.
Shaitan
der Besucher
I'm fine with that idea, CT. I have moved my turn chat scheduling to the first post of the Presidential thread.
Danke
Judge Advocate
I find that there is concurrence in the judiciary to move Charge 3 to Trial. the Judge advocate concurs that all other charges have been shown to be without merit and are dismissed.
The trial poll has been posted here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36873
And will run for 72 hours.
Danke
Judge Advocate
The trial poll has been posted here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36873
And will run for 72 hours.
Danke
Judge Advocate
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
You can say that again Chieftess . With 109 post, 724 views, and 6 pages would defantly clasify this as the Longest PI thread 
.
. With 109 post, 724 views, and 6 pages would defantly clasify this as the Longest PI thread .
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
We just needed to let it all out. We haven't had a good PI for a while.
Shaitan
der Besucher
Do I get honorable mention in the PI Hall of Fame now?
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
First, you need a trade contraversy...
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
You do get the free T-Shirt though Shaitan.
Bill
Bill
Octavian X
is not a pipe.
Don't forget the free mug...
'I was PI'ed, and all I got was this lously mug.'
'I was PI'ed, and all I got was this lously mug.'
disorganizer
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2002
- Messages
- 4,233
"I survived a PI" T-Shirt?
