Puppet cities are aweful?!

[kroket]

Ok so i have Kyoto as a puppet city for Arabia. It has marble as a luxuary resource but the city kinda ***** otherwise... I thought maintance was lower but...

I just counted everything and building maintance is 26 while my 3 other cities only add up to 12!! I thought this didn't count?? Is the feature broken or something because its the capital?? Unhappiness too i have 20 population and Kyoto has 9 population. Total unhappiness: 29!! and not 20.

Seriously are the only advantages of puppet states that they dont add unhappiness for occupied cities (courthouse solves that!) and that your policy costs dont go up??

Because the fact that the stupid AI just built a barracks and walls while i am never going to built units there or fight there kind of screws my budget... Besides Kyoto built a harbor (good one!) but there is no trade route!? I dont understand really...

Edit: so i annexed it. Guess what social policy cost remained equal!! Only 6 unhappiness extra was added but that was the only change.
Did something go wrong??
I added a save before annexing.

 

[Xylic]

Besides Kyoto built a harbor (good one!) but there is no trade route!? I dont understand really...

Remember you need a harbour in your main network also.

 

[kroket]

Remember you need a harbour in your main network also.

Certainly wasnt the case in my previous game...
I ll built a harbor next and see what happens.

 

[Tale]

You don't need to build a courthouse and policy costs don't go up.

Do not underestimate policies, though.

 

[kroket]

You don't need to build a courthouse and policy costs don't go up.

Do not underestimate policies, though.

I most surely do because Kyoto gives me 6 extra unhappiness...

 

[Drawmeus]

The major effects are on happiness, not on maintenance. Maintenance actually tends to go through the roof since you can't control what they're building and many buildings are just crappy money-sinks.

 

[Tridus]

I most surely do because Kyoto gives me 6 extra unhappiness...

When you annex it you'll get the extra unhappiness (fixed by a courthouse), and policy costs are supposed to go up. The unhappiness apparently happened, but the policy part might have been a glitch in your game.

Annexing them might be better anyway, the puppets just spam useless buildings and cripple your gold production.

 

[kroket]

Ok building a harbor in Mecca did NOT help at all. Still no trade route between Mecca and Kyoto even though both cities have harbours. Seriously Kyoto is SERIOUSLY broken... I have astronomy already so surely there should be a trade route?? No obstructions just a citystate in the way.

Wish i had razed Kyoto right away i dont like this particular game anymore...

 

[kroket]

The major effects are on happiness, not on maintenance. Maintenance actually tends to go through the roof since you can't control what they're building and many buildings are just crappy money-sinks.

When you annex it you'll get the extra unhappiness (fixed by a courthouse), and policy costs are supposed to go up. The unhappiness apparently happened, but the policy part might have been a glitch in your game.

Annexing them might be better anyway, the puppets just spam useless buildings and cripple your gold production.

Yeah both seem to be true! Now i have Walls (yeah me!)

Still doesnt explain why there is no traderoute...

Edit: now there suddenly is a traderoute!?! Not sure what changed!?

 

[Tridus]

I've found water trade routes can take a turn or two to kick in. Also they only work if you have a visible and unobstructed water route. If you haven't discovered a navigable route between the two cities, then the harbors won't work (same if the route is blockaded, which happens a lot before Astronomy).

 

[timtofly]

It seems that it takes several turns before the "game" catches up and everything is stabilized. Not sure if it is related to memory leaks and games crashing after a reload. Nothing seems instantaneous in this game. I have finished my turn and the AI starts to move and then I get unit needs orders. After moving the unit then the AI finishes. It may be instantaneous for multiplayer mode, but SP takes a while to reconcile things.

 

[Veshta]

I ran into the same problem but it sorted itself out once I researched The Wheel, apparently that tech lays down road in the city squares without which a route is impossible (same for Iroquios).

 

[lissenber]

When i capture a capital i usually liberate it or gift it to another civilization. Don`t want all that trouble they give me.

NEVER used puppet cities in the full game. Tried them in the demo and could already tell that they weren`t worth the effort.

 

[kossmikman]

I either raze cities or puppet good ones (those with resources or wonders). I keep them as puppet until they build a happiness building, then I annex. Puppets almost ruined me once, I will never let that happen.

 

[lschnarch]

Literally, puppet states in this game are meant to be some kind of colony. As such, they should only be allowed to build happiness and culture buildings and not more.

To have puppet states building barracks is just a slap into the player's face. This is just poor and bad design.
You as a player are already paying in terms of maintenance, additional culture costs and what else for having occupied them.

I honestly think that the gameplay wasn't either not tested at all or that in the development crew there have been people thinking: "What should I care about my ideas working or not? My ideas are so great, you just have to live with them!"

 

[Lord Parkin]

To have puppet states building barracks is just a slap into the player's face. This is just poor and bad design.
You as a player are already paying in terms of maintenance, additional culture costs and what else for having occupied them.

Amen to that, brother.

 

[sohvan]

An annexed city with a courthouse and a puppet city produce the exact same amount of unhappiness. A puppet will also often build useless expensive buildings, so they're not necessarily cheaper maintenance wise than an annexed courthouse city either. Puppeting is just something that lets you avoid the unhappiness penalty from not having a courthouse for a while.

For example you conquer 4 cities, and puppet two of those. Once courthouses finish in the 2 annexed cities, you annex the puppets and build courthouses in them too. You should not think of puppeting as a solution for unhappiness or maintenance. It is a short term solution for unhappiness, and it's main benefit is not having increased social policy costs.

 

[nodule]

If anything, puppets are too powerful. Sure, they build some annoying buildings, but other than that, they are better than an annex city due to lack of culture penalty.

 

[Namel]

I raze all cities I can. Capitals I puppet and try to keep checking when they start building something really stupid in which point I annex and build courthouse.

 

[Tridus]

If anything, puppets are too powerful. Sure, they build some annoying buildings, but other than that, they are better than an annex city due to lack of culture penalty.

Once you're paying 20 gpt in maintenance for all the barracks, walls, and other useless junk they build and you puppet five or six cities, you might change your mind. Left alone they can destroy your gold production.