Pushing for the Greco-Roman religion

[leftisthominid]

The Greco-Roman Religion needs to be put into this game
It was the majority religion of the Roman Empire until Theodosius I came around and banned it...
Plus multiple leaders in this game followed this religion
-Caesar
-Alexander
-Cyrus
-Augustus (in Warlords)

They picked religions that were well known, the Greco-Roman religion is the only religion taught in public schools, isn't that well known enough?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Cyrus ? Are yuo sure ? I always thought he was the first persian ruler who converted to Zoroastrianism and i am pretty sure that greek polytheism didn't play a significant role in persia until Alex the Aggressor came around...
Anyway i would rather have a new religion where the ruler is worshipped like a god than another version of polytheism, although this wouldn't change much. Too bad all religions are the same in Civ...

 

[leftisthominid]

I think he was G-RP, not completely sure

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, to be fair, I feel Paganism refers more to the loosely affiliated 'Nature Cults' spread througout Central and Northern Europe. In truh, both the Dodecameron (The G-R Pantheon) and Ossirian Pantheon (Egypt) were highly organised faiths.
In order to personally get around this, I have added a new religious Civic called 'Pantheism'-which fills the gap between 'Paganism' and 'Organised'-even if you don't have a religion founded in your city. The idea is that you can build World Wonders like the Temple of Artemis or the Temple of Zeus, as well as the Pantheon city improvement (think a Greco-Roman Temple).

Hope this helps.

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[leftisthominid]

Actually no.
G-RP was called paganism by early Christians to insult the polytheists. That mentality continued until Christians took control of the throne (and even when they controlled the majority of the populace was polytheistic).
When Theodosius came to power he banned all non-Christian religions. In the cities where these laws could be implemented, the Christians took over completely. In the countryside the polytheists were somewhat safe. They could still practice their religion without getting caught. This reinforced the term pagan and now-Christian Europe carried it on

[Middle English, from Late Latin pgnus, from Latin, country-dweller, civilian, from pgus, country, rural district. See pag- in Indo-European Roots.]

G-RP was by no means unorganized. It was just as organized as Hinduism or Shintoism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=pagan

Christian rulers tried to remove the religion from the Earth over all these years

 

[leftisthominid]

bumping this thread

 

[JustAnotherUser]

G-RP is polyteism, is not a coincidence that the civilopedia quote for polyteism is from a greek philosopist (sp). (they should have used generic names for the religions, rather than real world ones)

 

[LeConquerant]

the greek roman religion is paganism. In the game, the only religions that are can be founded are organised religions.

well, I can't see why that religion would be considered less organised than the current ones: can you precise your views?

 

[LeConquerant]

(they should have used generic names for the religions, rather than real world ones)

yes, and have prophets with fancy names, so as to avoid frustrating anyone. (Prophet Alazar the Mage, Histrious the Hairy, etc...)

 

[troytheface]

yes, if they wanted to they could include greek/roman and Norse mythology relgions with no big deal- and they are interesting enough to have in the game. Think that Norse religion was one of the last western hold outs aginst christianity. (they'd hold up a fist as the sign of the hammer in reaction to making the sign of the cross)

But if there are to many religions it would ruin the idea of religion as a game play factor-

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

That is a good point Troy. I can understand-from a game-play point of view-why they might only limit the number of 'named' religions to 7 (or 8 at a pinch), because any more than this would simply dilute the impact of religion within the game.
This is why, in my mod, I have included both a Pantheist and Sacrificial Civic Options-as it allows those who may have missed out on a religion to at least simulate those religions which are 'missing'-the various Polytheistic Faiths of Europe and Asia which predate Christianity in the case of Pantheist, and religions like the Quetzal faith of Meso-America in the case of Sacrificial.

If this doesn't work for you, then maybe you can consider the following possibilities:

1) remove Hinduism and replace it with (a) Ossirian Pantheon, (b) Quetzal Pantheon or (c) Greco-Roman Pantheon.

2) If you have enough control over the code (i.e. you know enough Python or C++) then make add certain 'religion pathways' to cover (a) to (c) above, but have each one accessible via a certain 'gateway' tech-one limited by either Civic choices and/or resources. In fact, if you applied similar restrictions to ALL the religions, then though you may have 10 or more religions within the game, in most games you may only ever have 5-7 of them ever being a viable option for acquisition-and will often be limited by regional factors.

Hope that helps.

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Yva!n]

The interesting thing about this subject is that two of the Great Wonders (the Oracle and the Parthenon) are Greek temples! Yet no luvins for their religion?

 

[JustAnotherUser]

yes, and have prophets with fancy names, so as to avoid frustrating anyone. (Prophet Alazar the Mage, Histrious the Hairy, etc...)

Or maybe when you found a religion give the option to name it, like for the cities.

 

[leftisthominid]

Maybe we ought to start a petition to push em towards add it in with Warlords

 

[Duuk]

the greek roman religion is paganism. In the game, the only religions that are can be founded are organised religions. Paganism is covered by the first religious civic.

According to Christians and Muslims, any non-Judiac religion is paganism.



The greco-roman religion was a very "temple based" organized religion, and its exclusion is amazing.

Personally, I'm disappointed they went with "named" religions instead of having a chance to found a "specific" religion with certain techs/wonders.

IE: <CivName> + "monotheism" or "polytheism" or "mysticism" or "moral code". Under this case, it would remove the "unreality" of Hindu Spain and instead have "Iberian Polytheism" as the religion name.

Or... "Roman Monotheism" instead of Christianity.

Or "Arabian Monotheism" instead of Islam.

Etc.

 

[DarkOpus]

Aussie_Lurker makes some key points. One factor I would add is that the G-R Pantheon was not the be all and end all of the Mediterranean Classical era in religion. Romans, and Greeks, were notoriously animistic (witness the number of votive offerings) though in this case it is best represented by Paganism. Perhaps including animism in some form of civic would be the way forward? I concede that this post would be more fitting in the G-R mods.

 

[atreas]

Aussie_Lurker makes some key points. One factor I would add is that the G-R Pantheon was not the be all and end all of the Mediterranean Classical era in religion. Romans, and Greeks, were notoriously animistic (witness the number of votive offerings) though in this case it is best represented by Paganism. Perhaps including animism in some form of civic would be the way forward? I concede that this post would be more fitting in the G-R mods.

Animism might be interesting, but thinking that G-RP has anything to do with it is wrong. Polytheism is entirely different than animism, in too many aspects.

The votive offerings aren't a criterion - you can find such things even in modern Christianity.

 

[Older than Dirt]

Please! Not another cookie-cutter religion.

 

[cuchulain]

I don't know why people are against more religions, it just adds more variety and it would be very easy for the devs to add. If balance is a concern, I'm sure the devs could let you pick how many, if any relgions you wanted in the game.

I would love to see GR-P, and I would also like to see Animism or some of the 'barbarian' religions added along with it to add more flavor to ancient scenarios. Also, why not Protestantism and Zoroastrianism? The rift between Protestantism and Catholicism cuased loads of wars; they should be included too. I was honestly shocked that the expansion doesn't seem to be adding at least these 4 religions... though I think its far too late to add them now...

 

[leftisthominid]

Aussie_Lurker makes some key points. One factor I would add is that the G-R Pantheon was not the be all and end all of the Mediterranean Classical era in religion. Romans, and Greeks, were notoriously animistic (witness the number of votive offerings) though in this case it is best represented by Paganism. Perhaps including animism in some form of civic would be the way forward? I concede that this post would be more fitting in the G-R mods.

As Duuk said. All non-Judaic theisms are paganism. Hinduism is paganism, Shintoism is paganism, Mahayana Buddhism is paganism...

Votive offering still occurs in fully-fledged polytheism
When my parents go to temple they give prasad to the idols
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prasad

If we make a big enough a fuss we could get it in. Doesn't Firaxis look at the discussions we make over here