Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
Bet she dungeoned it. I've faced a Tasunke who got Iron working that way before turn 200. Uh....
Pyre Zombie Strategy
- Thread starter Sarisin
- Start date
Possibly, but I find getting techs is easier from Goody Huts than Lairs/Dungeons, etc. I've even had better luck getting techs from Graveyards.
Iron Working before turn 200. That couldn't have been an epic speed game?
Cyberian
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Messages
- 304
I got the same problem in my current game (Immortal flex diff game with Balseraphs (currently deity)). I saw those stacks early and and did everything to keep the peace a few turns cause I was not ready. I then decided to go for Iron Working, but they declared war on my before I got there. I had defensive units scattered over 4 tiles before the city I thought theyd attack first and built roads there. Then the offensive units used attack retreat tactics. Once I managed to defeat a wave I had to quickly replace my defensive units cause they all died weakening the pyre stack.
I managed to postpone my defeat with this tactic until I got to Iron Working. Once I was there I used my Mimics (Unique Balseraph unit) as units in the upper tactic. Some of the Mimics died but the remaining got the fire resistance promotion they stole from the zombies and quite an impressing list of other promotions.
I then was able to defeat the whole Sheiam empire with mimics.
By the way I later upgraded those to berserkers. See my strongest of those:
Hes been blitzing and hill defending the last 100 turns
Hmpf I need to heal it, but hes getting no damage anyway.
I managed to postpone my defeat with this tactic until I got to Iron Working. Once I was there I used my Mimics (Unique Balseraph unit) as units in the upper tactic. Some of the Mimics died but the remaining got the fire resistance promotion they stole from the zombies and quite an impressing list of other promotions.
I then was able to defeat the whole Sheiam empire with mimics.
By the way I later upgraded those to berserkers. See my strongest of those:
Hes been blitzing and hill defending the last 100 turns
Hmpf I need to heal it, but hes getting no damage anyway.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
mimics vs pyre zombies, that's kinda cool.
Of course, it's a champion level unit vs an Axeman level unit, it SHOULD do well. This is why the Sheiam aren't allowed champions!
Of course, it's a champion level unit vs an Axeman level unit, it SHOULD do well. This is why the Sheiam aren't allowed champions!
I think the Succubus from the Planar Gates is a good replacement for a Champion. They also get weapons promotions.
I am just floored in my game as the Sheaim how many creatures you get through those gates. I have only 10 cities with 10 Gates, but have at least 200 creatures. The AC is at 93 and that helps.
The Minotaurs are pouring in now. I am deleted Chaos Marauders just to keep my Maintenance costs manageable.
I haven't even been building any Tier IV units (that are available) as I have at least 20 Manticores.
I am just floored in my game as the Sheaim how many creatures you get through those gates. I have only 10 cities with 10 Gates, but have at least 200 creatures. The AC is at 93 and that helps.
The Minotaurs are pouring in now. I am deleted Chaos Marauders just to keep my Maintenance costs manageable.
I haven't even been building any Tier IV units (that are available) as I have at least 20 Manticores.
Yeah, the Sheaim is pretty strong now in the hands of the AI. the only thing I wonder is if they ever build planar gates. I've really never seen any of the Planar Gate creatures in any of my games, and I almost always put in the Sheiam so that (hopefully) the AV gets founded.
As for countering the Pyre Zombies, too bad fire resistance isn't easier to get to. As a matter of fact, all the resistance promotions seem a bit too hard to get to. Most of the time I just end up buffing my 200+ ex hero units with those when it really doesn't affect anything. Anyone think the requirement for those should be lowered?
As for countering the Pyre Zombies, too bad fire resistance isn't easier to get to. As a matter of fact, all the resistance promotions seem a bit too hard to get to. Most of the time I just end up buffing my 200+ ex hero units with those when it really doesn't affect anything. Anyone think the requirement for those should be lowered?
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
yeah, that would be nice.
I think they do build the Planar Gates in some cities. I have seen Moebius Witches, Chaos Marauders and Tar Demons. Nothing else, though.
I wonder if the cost of the building is scaring them off until they get into the late game... oh well, not seeing Manticores is the least of my worries. The big flaming stack of Pyre Zombies next to my border right now, not so good.
They do have the what I think is good effect of keeping heroes from being too effective when invading their lands. Blitz is almost useless if you take damage, and march only applies at the end of turn... Makes for some truly epic battles though, since you ususally need a good amout of fodder.
They do have the what I think is good effect of keeping heroes from being too effective when invading their lands. Blitz is almost useless if you take damage, and march only applies at the end of turn... Makes for some truly epic battles though, since you ususally need a good amout of fodder.
Jules.lt
Prince
The pyre zombie explosion mechanic is still quite unclear to me.
As I understand it:
When the pyre zombie dies attacking, the explosion is centered on the tile he attacked.
When the pyre zombie dies while under attack, the explosion is centered on the tilewhere he was attacked.
The center of the explosion is affected, as well as all the tiles around it, vertically, horizontally and diagonally. The units on the center tile take more damage than the ones around it.
Am I getting it right? Is it, for example, a good tactic to send troops one by one in the hope that each dead pyre zombie will weaken all of its stack?
When you send a stack of Pyre zombies after a city, does your stack get damaged by your units exploding on the defenders?
Thanks in advance...
As I understand it:
When the pyre zombie dies attacking, the explosion is centered on the tile he attacked.
When the pyre zombie dies while under attack, the explosion is centered on the tilewhere he was attacked.
The center of the explosion is affected, as well as all the tiles around it, vertically, horizontally and diagonally. The units on the center tile take more damage than the ones around it.
Am I getting it right? Is it, for example, a good tactic to send troops one by one in the hope that each dead pyre zombie will weaken all of its stack?
When you send a stack of Pyre zombies after a city, does your stack get damaged by your units exploding on the defenders?
Thanks in advance...
I'm not quite sure on the effect if a Pyre Zombie dies attacking, as I rarely have units spread about, but I know that if a Pyre Zombie dies, ONLY the surrounding tiles get damaged. It used to be that the explosion would damage the tile the zombie was on if they dies in defence in the Fire (0.2) version of the game, but now they just damage surrounding tiles.
If you use Pyre Zombies on attack, I belive the explosion is centered on the tile they attacked from, giving them immunity to thier own explosions.
Jules.lt
Prince
thanks guys!
Kenjister is correct.
That is why the Chariot Strategy seems to work best.
A stack of Pyre Zombies enters your borders (I like having Nox Noctis as you can see them coming, but theoretically, they cannot see what is waiting for them).
You have a stack of Chariots hopefully with weapons promotions and Mobility I and II. Withdrawing does you no good in this strategy as you will likely be killed by the ensuing explosions.
Anyway, you must keep your stack of Chariots two tiles away from the stack of Pyre Zombies. Then, attack them one Chariot at a time. The Chariot will usually be victorious (still those pesky 9x.x% losses, however). Make sure you move the Chariot two tiles away again or the subsequent explosions will kill it.
You need to just keep doing this until the stack is gone. I found the AI kept spamming these mini-stacks (10-15) of Pyre Zombies and I was able to develop a fine veteran corps of Chariots.
One thing that didn't help me in the game were my Wood Golems and Catapults. Both could not get the mobility and both went up in smoke easily.
I was very lucky, though, and got a Ritualist from an event - in that game Loyalty would keep the Crazed Ritualist from turning Enraged and fleeing. He WAS able to damage each stack of Pyre Zombies with his Ring of Flames and then move away to let the Chariots do their thing. Their Fire Resistance didn't help them that much against this spell.
That is why the Chariot Strategy seems to work best.
A stack of Pyre Zombies enters your borders (I like having Nox Noctis as you can see them coming, but theoretically, they cannot see what is waiting for them).
You have a stack of Chariots hopefully with weapons promotions and Mobility I and II. Withdrawing does you no good in this strategy as you will likely be killed by the ensuing explosions.
Anyway, you must keep your stack of Chariots two tiles away from the stack of Pyre Zombies. Then, attack them one Chariot at a time. The Chariot will usually be victorious (still those pesky 9x.x% losses, however). Make sure you move the Chariot two tiles away again or the subsequent explosions will kill it.
You need to just keep doing this until the stack is gone. I found the AI kept spamming these mini-stacks (10-15) of Pyre Zombies and I was able to develop a fine veteran corps of Chariots.
One thing that didn't help me in the game were my Wood Golems and Catapults. Both could not get the mobility and both went up in smoke easily.
I was very lucky, though, and got a Ritualist from an event - in that game Loyalty would keep the Crazed Ritualist from turning Enraged and fleeing. He WAS able to damage each stack of Pyre Zombies with his Ring of Flames and then move away to let the Chariots do their thing. Their Fire Resistance didn't help them that much against this spell.
Yeah, that's the key - having enough movement points to move away. If you have them, then it is good. If not, they will blow up in the explosion caused by the NEXT Chariot's kill.
Personally, I'd rather put the XP in drill or extra first strikes than additional withdrawal chances.
So how do resistances and % damage work?
ie: If I have a unit at 100% strength, and it takes 30% fire damage from an explosion, normally it would now be at 70% strength?
No difference between a fully healed 4 str unit vs a fully healed 15 str unit? Both take 30% of their max?
With 50% fire resist, would they not take 15%? Or does it cap the damage somehow?
ie: If 10 zombies blow up on a normal unit for 20% damage each, it dies after 5 of them (since pyre zombie damage isn't capped)?
If 10 zombies blow up on a 50% fire resist unit for 20% damage each, wouldn't that unit take 10% damage from each? Or are you saying 50% fire resist means that it would take the full damage from the first 2, 10% from the 3rd, and no further damage once it is at 50% health?
PotatoOverdose
Prince
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2007
- Messages
- 352
While I don't know the specific math, form experience I can tell you this. A unit with resist x, x being any of the elemental spell spheres can never die due to a stack busting abilitities(e.g. pyre zombie explosions, Auric Ascended's snowfall) form said element. They can get reduced to "0.0" strength, but they won't die. They also take less damage per spell, but the damage cap is not reduced. So, as an example, the clan will never die from pyre zombie explosions due to the built in 20% fire resist from the orcish promotion, but they can die from fireballs (which are all fire damage too). By the same token, units with the winterborn promotion (doviello and illians) cannot die from Auric Ascended's snowfall.
