Q for Firaxis: Why no speeding of Wonders?

[stravaig]

I'm happy with it the way it is. The wonder races are more intense, more frustrating maybe, but more intense.

Still, I also like the idea of 'peaceful' great leaders, particularly Boca's ideas! I'd make one of them able to reduce corruption, but that's just me.
It's a great idea to have them boost a city's performance in an area, and it seems balanced to me. It's like the decision with Military GLs: build an army or a wonder? With the Peaceful GL it'd be: get a bonus for this city or build a wonder?
I like it.

As for when they were awarded...
I think it should be random. If it's something predictable or repeatable, then, as Dan mentions, there'd be an exploit to get them. Military GLs are random, so should be Peaceful GLs, IMO.

Tying Jeremy's and Boca's ideas together ...

Figure the number of techs in a game. Give a random potential to generate a Peaceful GL for each time you gain a tech advance, so that it's likely to happen only once a game.
To make it rarer (although not necessarily historically accurate) and to pander to the peaceniks, make it so that you can only get one if you've been at peace for X number of turns. Maybe another criteria is that you have to be the first civ to research the tech... but that hoses you up at the higher difficulty levels.
Now, based on the tech you researched when the GL popped up, it'd be a particular type per Boca's idea. E.G.:
Computers - Science Leader
Music Theory - Cultural Leader
Nationalism - Religious/Social
Corporation - Commercial

I might add an Industrial Leader, too, who boosts production. Maybe split out Religous (Moral Leader) from Social. Social Leader would make people happy, Moral Leader would reduce corruption.

I like it!

Dan! Use this idea!

- Stravaig

 

[Morten Blaabjerg]

My 2 cents.

Great leaders and stacked combat are brilliant, but have played only a marginal role in the games I've played. I'd like to see these concepts much more important, and something you can achieve, without this "random event". What I always liked about the civ games, is the "hands on" feeling that Sid keeps talking about in interviews etc.

Why not expand on the "great leader" concept, and simply make them great merchants, spies, leaders, diplomats, business men, politicians, artists etc. Depending on the occasion. A war could easily spawn a great merchant profiting on selling weapons, or a great politican arising from a successful diplomatic occasion.

They are attracted by three things :

1) Money, i.e. the amount of excess gold in the court coffins.
2) Culture, i.e. the current amount of culture points assembled.
3) Opportunity, i.e. a war, a wonder, a key tech etc..

They can be triggered by a war, building of a city, a wonder, a defeat (peace agreement), discovery of new ressources, a key research project and so on. If the conditions are met; gold & culture enough and the right occasion, there's a reasonable chance a leader will appear in one of your cities, and offer his/hers service for a certain cost. Which can be accepted or refused.

The leader can then be used as a specific advantage. I suggest the following :

* build an army -military leaders provide bonus'es for the army in combat.
* complete a wonder
* eliminate corruption in a city (useful for far away cities which gains a new, efficient governor)
* perform propaganda (convert an enemy city)
* be placed as a spy in enemy territory
* watch over the environment (no pollution from city in modern times)
* eliminate unhappiness in city (artists)
* setup a colony or corporation for you in far away ressource square.

Leaders underway to their destination should be captureable by enemy civs (and not simply be killed), and after being imprisoned & brainwashed, they can be used by the capturers. This will make it pretty important to guard them from other civs. They're valuable enough as it is, but you don't really lose anything if they get killed and are unable to perform a task. If enemy civs can get advantages from getting one of your leaders, it'll provice a very crucial aspect, which can get pretty dramatic.

 

[Craterus22]

Another option would be to have each civ start with one GL.

This would enable all civs to rush one wonder or start an army.

The strategy would be - how long do I hold onto this guy? Do I use him right away? Wait for middle or end game? WOnder or Army? If going the army route you build the Herioc Epic and pray for more GL's... if your peaceful you slam dunk the wonder of your choice. Civ AI's could use the first GL based on thier tendencies...

Currently we (or at least some of us)have to go 4 or 5 games at a time without a GL showing up in the game. Longer if you play peacefully...

GL's should be rare, but not MIA