Quest Ideas: Overhauls and New Concepts

[DefiantMars]

So I've tried writing out the thought process behind my earlier suggestion. I'm stumped on what their effects should actually be, but I'm fairly content with the way that the affinities diverge.

This is a Hybrid/Core/Hybrid quest.

The Natural Sequence

Our scientists have come across a species which possesses the ability to withstand incredible heat or cold, surpassing all but the most experimental metamaterials. Further study could prove invaluable to material research for projects like all-purpose armor, deep bore tunneling, and orbital operations. However, ecologists are quick to point out that the species is as rare as it is remarkable. There are several vocal groups of differing opinion on the matter. But the decision rests on you. How do we proceed?
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Harmony

1. Choose to preserve the species.

Reward

Protecting marvels of this beautiful world take precedence over any of our own human ambition. We will study them, but only at the pace the cycle of life dictates.

+2 Science from Alien Preserves. +Harmony Affinity points

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Supremacy/Harmony

1. Choose to cull the species.

Rewards

Survival of the fittest. All life is eventually supplanted by something stronger. Harvest its code. There are many places where it could prove useful.

+4 Energy from Geothermal Wells +Supremacy and Harmony Affinity Points.

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Harmony/Purity

1. Choose to enhance the species.

Rewards

Humanity has made more itself since we've arrived on this new world. There is surely a lesson to be had in uplifting ourselves that we can learn from bettering this creature.

+2 Culture From Gene Gardens +Harmony and Purity Affinity points

 

[Galgus]

It seems like a good Harmony hybrid quest to me, though it would be daunting to create a second set of c/h/c and h/c/h quests around it.

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Some reward ideas for that quest:

Harmony: +2 Science from Alien Preserves.

Voracity: +4 Energy from Geothermal Wells.

Ascendancy: +2 Culture from Alien Preserves.

 

[DefiantMars]

It seems like a good Harmony hybrid quest to me, though it would be daunting to create a second set of c/h/c and h/c/h quests around it.

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Some reward ideas for that quest:

Harmony: +2 Science from Alien Preserves.

Voracity: +4 Energy from Geothermal Wells.

Ascendancy: +2 Culture from Alien Preserves.

I'd try to keep each triad more isolated. Its hard to find threads broad enough to fit them into, but focused enough that the personalities can come out. I think breaking them into smaller segments will make things easier. Only issue is if you want to chain these into deeper quest-lines.

The affinity wheel has some lines about the mentality of each. I have 3 right now.

Harmony

Harmony is the belief in, and practice of, adapting to the alien environment instead of vice versa.

“In order for the Seeding to succeed, we must adopt one of these frameworks. We support the suggestion from Dr. Correm. Her ‘Path of Harmony” is the most conducive to a veridicality of solutions.”

- From the proceedings of the “Philosophical Conference on the Inflection Point”

Ascendancy

The Purity/Harmony Hybrid Affinity is the belief in human evolution through the combination of Alien and Human genomes; the synthesis of a superhuman lifeform.

“We have proof that life exists outside our solar system. It may even be intelligent life. It doesn’t disprove the existence of a higher power. It doesn’t prove it either. Your argument is ridiculous. No, let me finish! How we deal with this knowledge is important.”

- From “They are There, Now What?” - The Documentary

Voracity

This Affinity is about improving humanity by any means necessary, applying radical transformations to human physiology and psychology via alien or technological augmentation and extension.

“Harmonious thought Starlight is a dance of war.
The past is a lie.”
- Hiro Goto, Campfire Sonata

^ I just realized, that is a haiku.
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I do like the Harmony and Voracity bonuses, but I don't find myself drawn to the Ascendancy idea. If possible, I'd like to see the effect in another building. Unfortunately I'm not sure what it could be.

 

[Galgus]

Perhaps instead Ascendancy's version could give a boost to Gene Gardens instead, with study of modifying the creatures?

None of the quotes they give are particularly communicative on the affinity's philosophy, though the Harmony one makes an interesting note that affinity discussions predate the seeding.

Which is odd because the Affinity level up quotes are generally solid.
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Come to think of it, a thread for hybrid affinity quote ideas could be fun, though I'm not sure what I'd suggest or if there is truly room for it.

What is the "max" hybrid level anyway?

 

[DefiantMars]

Perhaps instead Ascendancy's version could give a boost to Gene Gardens instead, with study of modifying the creatures?

None of the quotes they give are particularly communicative on the affinity's philosophy, though the Harmony one makes an interesting note that affinity discussions predate the seeding.

Which is odd because the Affinity level up quotes are generally solid.
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Come to think of it, a thread for hybrid affinity quote ideas could be fun, though I'm not sure what I'd suggest or if there is truly room for it.

What is the "max" hybrid level anyway?

I think the Gene Garden could work. Its low enough in affinity requirement that its not prohibitive if you started Harmony and shifted to Ascendancy.

Oh yeah, the actual quotes don't really provide any insight into the mindset of the affinities. No the hybrid perspectives are only outlined by the 1st lines in each. But its nice to have the means they progress written out.

Right now there is no "room" so to speak for hybrid quotes. That would require the hybrids to be given their own paths in terms of the affinity wheel. I still think there needs to/should be a way where you commit to affinity choices. It can be incremental, but I think its would help push hybrid into full affinity status.

That said, it would be fun to try and make some quotes. Only problem is finding the right voice and right outlook for each. As some of them are told by leaders, some are told by colonists, others are register entries (Supremacy 18). And each affinity communicates different values.

Not sure what the cap is.

 

[Galgus]

The hybrid quotes would be akin to the affinity level quotes, which are heard whenever you rank up in an affinity level.

So 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, and ect. could theoretically have hybrid quotes, though there would always be at least one core affinity quote alongside it.

Yeah, thinking of the different sources and intensity while staying true to the philosophy without constantly repeating oneself is certainly a writing challenge.
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I still think an affinity traits or virtues system would be best for making players commit to affinities.

I still don't see how we went from Ideologies in BNW to not having any comparable system with Affinities even in an expansion.

 

[DefiantMars]

The hybrid quotes would be akin to the affinity level quotes, which are heard whenever you rank up in an affinity level.

So 1/1, 2/2, 3/3, and ect. could theoretically have hybrid quotes, though there would always be at least one core affinity quote alongside it.

Yeah, thinking of the different sources and intensity while staying true to the philosophy without constantly repeating oneself is certainly a writing challenge.
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I still think an affinity traits or virtues system would be best for making players commit to affinities.

I still don't see how we went from Ideologies in BNW to not having any comparable system with Affinities even in an expansion.

I know how the Quotes should be like, I'm just not sure "where" it would make sense right now. With the way things are currently set up, the way that it would have to be done is the way you've described. But I don't think that would help in conveying their own identity.

Regardless of the specific means. To me, a player selected trigger would make affinity feel more deliberate and less passive in progression.

One thing that bugs me, is something that was said I think in Marbozir's previews (or EnterElysium I can't remember). He said that once you have your dominant affinity, which is always a core affinity. Even when you hybridize, the other affinities will base their affinity opinions on that dominant core as if you weren't even hybridized.

Instead of making it halved. Its all or nothing, unfortunately.

 

[Galgus]

I feel like acknowledging hybrid affinities as their own thing where possible and trying to insert some text on their philosophies would help to make them feel unique, and not just like rough blends of their parents.
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I agree that a player selected trigger would provide a greater sense of agency, though my main focus would be on making Affinity choice mechanically impactful.

Both are compatible and inseparable benefits, though.
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That is a very short-sighted diplomatic design.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I know how the Quotes should be like, I'm just not sure "where" it would make sense right now. With the way things are currently set up, the way that it would have to be done is the way you've described. But I don't think that would help in conveying their own identity.

Regardless of the specific means. To me, a player selected trigger would make affinity feel more deliberate and less passive in progression.

One thing that bugs me, is something that was said I think in Marbozir's previews (or EnterElysium I can't remember). He said that once you have your dominant affinity, which is always a core affinity. Even when you hybridize, the other affinities will base their affinity opinions on that dominant core as if you weren't even hybridized.

Instead of making it halved. Its all or nothing, unfortunately.

Quotes would make sense whenever you get a new Hybrid benefit.

After all, when you get Purity 2 you get a pop up that has a Purity quote and lists the special Purity benefit you get.

When you get Harmony 2 (if you already have Purity 2), you get a pop up that has a Harmony Quote and lists the special Harmony benefit you get...
either as part of that pop up or separately, you should get an Ascendancy quote and listing the special Ascendancy benefit you get

so at 2,5,6*,7*,8, and 10
*unit upgrades

It probably isn't a good idea to have it at Every level because then
Purity-3, Harmony-1, Supremacy-0 getting 1 level of Supremacy triggers 3 quotes
Supremacy 1, Audacity 1, Mastery 1. (even worse if they are on separate popups)

I do hope the next expansion fleshes out the hybrid affinities (and the virtue system/internal political game)

 

[DefiantMars]

Quotes would make sense whenever you get a new Hybrid benefit.

After all, when you get Purity 2 you get a pop up that has a Purity quote and lists the special Purity benefit you get.

When you get Harmony 2 (if you already have Purity 2), you get a pop up that has a Harmony Quote and lists the special Harmony benefit you get...
either as part of that pop up or separately, you should get an Ascendancy quote and listing the special Ascendancy benefit you get

so at 2,5,6*,7*,8, and 10
*unit upgrades

It probably isn't a good idea to have it at Every level because then
Purity 3 Harmony 1 Supremacy 0 getting 1 level of Supremacy triggers 3 quotes
Supremacy 1, Audacity 1, Mastery 1.

I do hope the next expansion fleshes out the hybrid affinities (and the virtue system/internal political game)

I'd prefer if you didn't just get pop ups. How the Hybrid benefits pop up based on the core affinity levels is not conducive to the "Own Solution" statement that the Devs keep claiming. I think that making you need to select the perk and then getting the pop up would be better for player agency, with mechanical difference in mind.

Your second to the last statement is what made me concerned. The endless string of pop-ups for affinity upgrades. That's why I want player commitment. It would curb that issue, make Hybrids their own identity, and give players that ONLY want 1 affinity have an out.

I pray Hybrids get another pass in future updates.

Perhaps if Affinity XP got stored instead of automatically ticking up the level and you had to expend the XP to unlock the perk and advance affinity. After all, affinity isn't just about what tech you have, its how you choose to deal with the information and opportunities made available.

 

[Galgus]

I hadn't thought of displaying the quote when a perk is picked, but that would fit extremely well.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'd prefer if you didn't just get pop ups. How the Hybrid benefits pop up based on the core affinity levels is not conducive to the "Own Solution" statement that the Devs keep claiming. I think that making you need to select the perk and then getting the pop up would be better for player agency, with mechanical difference in mind.

Your second to the last statement is what made me concerned. The endless string of pop-ups for affinity upgrades. That's why I want player commitment. It would curb that issue, make Hybrids their own identity, and give players that ONLY want 1 affinity have an out.

I pray Hybrids get another pass in future updates.

Perhaps if Affinity XP got stored instead of automatically ticking up the level and you had to expend the XP to unlock the perk and advance affinity. After all, affinity isn't just about what tech you have, its how you choose to deal with the information and opportunities made available.

Well I do think there should be some automatic perks that don't need to be picked, you get them because you got the affinity xp and your society is changing in that way.

I agree on also getting some "choice" benefits too (affinity virtues, that exclude others)

I think those would be another good place for quotes.
...
Thinking of that, why don't the Virtues have quotes like the techs do? If picking a Virtue gave you a little popup like discovering a tech (a quote and Maybe a picture) then it might help flesh them out a bit more, and make them more interesting [of course they also need some mechanics work, but so do techs]

If they did have quotes for virtues, then virtues associated with affinities (or virtue bonuses that required you to choose an affinity) would be a great place for hybrid philosophy quotes.

 

[Galgus]

I'm not a fan of perks gained from affinity points alone because they create scenarios where, in time, a player can theoretically gain all perks.

If not the only ones, choice bonuses should be the lion's share of peacetime affinity power.

That way there is a real sense of customizing your colony, and a death to the lame mentality that, eventually, other players would have what you have.
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Virtues seem purposefully vague.

I'd rather keep them separate from affinities and make a separate virtue or trait system for affinities.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I'm not a fan of perks gained from affinity points alone because they create scenarios where, in time, a player can theoretically gain all perks.

If not the only ones, choice bonuses should be the lion's share of peacetime affinity power.

That way there is a real sense of customizing your colony, and a death to the lame mentality that, eventually, other players would have what you have.
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Virtues seem purposefully vague.

I'd rather keep them separate from affinities and make a separate virtue or trait system for affinities.

Well I think it is OK if there is some bonuses Everyone eventually gets, as long as there are other choice ones. (affinity virtues or traits)

Choice benefit granters would be the best place to add those quotes.
But core affinities already get quotes at the auto benefit points, hybrids should as well.
(Technically the core affinities give you benefits at every single level due to unit upgrades opening up)

 

[Galgus]

Bonuses everyone gets tend to greatly favor hybrids and punish focusing on one affinity.

I agree that quotes on choice would be nice, though I share DefiantMars' concerns that too many hybrid upgrade quotes would clutter things.

 

[DefiantMars]

Bonuses everyone gets tend to greatly favor hybrids and punish focusing on one affinity.

I agree that quotes on choice would be nice, though I share DefiantMars' concerns that too many hybrid upgrade quotes would clutter things.

Its not just the hybrid quotes. I feel that there are simply too many due to the fact that you can get all affinity perks. You get a 2 level bump in Harmony at the same time you get 1 in supremacy, and you suddenly have 3 pop ups for affinity alone. Not to mention the quotes almost always accompany a tech quote. From tech being the leading way to get affinity XP.

Don't not confuse this sentiment with me not wanting hybrid quotes. I'd be very happy if the hybrids got up all the way to 18 as with the cores, but with the way the Affinity Wheel and perk system is set up now, there would be WAAAAAY to many text boxes.

 

[Galgus]

I agree that when they appear inherently clutters things, but they are valuable as some in-game story telling that can be a bit sparse in BE.

 

[DefiantMars]

I agree that when they appear inherently clutters things, but they are valuable as some in-game story telling that can be a bit sparse in BE.

Agreed, which is again why I think that affinity levels should be based on player choice. Therefore quotes play when the player determines which path they wish to walk down. It is far more satisfying to me when you complete a quest, click the button for the affinity you want, and get the quote.

I think just having hybrid quests choices will help to that means, but there would still be the lingering issue of "players (human and AI) getting all perks", even if only hypothetically.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Agreed, which is again why I think that affinity levels should be based on player choice. Therefore quotes play when the player determines which path they wish to walk down. It is far more satisfying to me when you complete a quest, click the button for the affinity you want, and get the quote.

I think just having hybrid quests choices will help to that means, but there would still be the lingering issue of "players (human and AI) getting all perks", even if only hypothetically.

Which is OK if there is only a fraction of the perks that everyone can hypothetically get, the rest are divided.

Which they already have...there are points where you have to choose one Affinity and lose out on the others, when you pick basic unit upgrades. It needs to be extended, but you can't have Air units that both heal on attack (Harmony) And Heal every turn (Purity).

I would like to see that in the Civilian economy as well, but I would also like to keep some benefits that everyone can get from an affinity, even if their 'primary' is something else.

 

[Galgus]

Choosing an affinity perk is almost completely limited to the military, and I'd like to see affinity make huge changes for the civilian side as well.

The military unit issue could be resolved by adding more traits to those units.

I don't see any value in default perks from Affinity - why should a Harmony / Purity colony get a Supremacy perk at any time?