Question about coastal cities and trade routes...

[Odysseus2112]

Is there any way when setting up a trade route between two coastal cities on the same landmass to opt for a land route rather than a naval route? I don't mind the naval route. It would probably be less prone to looting overall, but I would like to be able to lay a road down first for the purposes of infrastructure. Thanks.

 

[Victoria]

No, the fastest way is calculated and it is rather annoying when you want a road

 

[Odysseus2112]

Ah. That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I really hope they fix that with a patch because it's a pretty substantial problem for coastal cities. I had a coastal city last night that I just could not meaningfully connect it to the rest of my empire, and had it been attacked it would have been really hard to respond in time. Thanks Victoria.

 

[Rosty K]

Ah. That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. I really hope they fix that with a patch because it's a pretty substantial problem for coastal cities. I had a coastal city last night that I just could not meaningfully connect it to the rest of my empire, and had it been attacked it would have been really hard to respond in time. Thanks Victoria.

That might be one of the reasons why Military Engineers are in the game...

 

[MadDjinn]

It sometimes depends. If both cities have harbours there's a better chance to get a sea route. If at least one doesn't have a harbour, then the land route has more of a chance to form. It really depends on distance though.

Sea routes have a max distance and do not use city trading posts to extend the route via the sea (like fleets used to do wrt going around Africa to Asia instead of through the middle east). So if your cities are both water based, but too far, the land route would likely show up; especially if you already have a land TP city in between.

 

[Victoria]

Sea routes have a max distance and do not use city trading posts to extend the route via the sea

Now you say this and I found this to be true of foreign ports but not your own. Once you have done a trade route to one of your own harbour it will extend or at least has done so when I have tried.

 

[c4c6]

For nearby coastal cities which shall be connected in ancient times to the rest of the empire (using quick roads for all kind of land units): does it help to establish the trade route between the cities by starting the trader in the (new) city without harbour?

 

[Odysseus2112]

For nearby coastal cities which shall be connected in ancient times to the rest of the empire (using quick roads for all kind of land units): does it help to establish the trade route between the cities by starting the trader in the (new) city without harbour?

Hmmm.... I'll have to try that.

 

[Victoria]

city without harbour? that is not next to the coast
You do not need a harbour to trade route over sea from it
Military engineers are way too expensive

 

[Odysseus2112]

That might be one of the reasons why Military Engineers are in the game...

Yeah, I had thought of that. For me though early roads are really important simply because I like to go (literally) wider than most players and do early archer warrior rushes so by the time I got engineers it would probably not be too helpful. It seems like it must have been an oversight to me, because there seems to be no logical reason why a leader wouldn't be able to decide something as important as whether a trade route would go by land or sea. I think the engineers should be used for situations where you want to build a road to somewhere besides a city.

 

[BuzWeaverCiv]

No, the fastest way is calculated and it is rather annoying when you want a road

It's kind of the games way of "incentivizing" you to build an Engineer.

 

[Victoria]

Lol, I guess but they are not cheap and need an armoury. Yes if I really want the Ballistics eureka then I build one... but at only 2 tiles of road per engineer they are not well incentivised

 

[Rosty K]

Well, when I said that about Military Engineers, I forgot to add 'from the developers' point of view'

I myself have only built that unit once, to get 2 forts. After that I decided that screw that particular eureka, I'll rather waste some science, not production.

Never experienced this problem with roads though.

 

[c4c6]

city without harbour? that is not next to the coast // You do not need a harbour to trade route over sea from it

I should have written city without Harbor District (Royal Navy Dockyard District) ...
I had the faint hope, that a trader starting from a fresh founded city (without Harbor District) would prefer a land trade route and a trader starting from an older city with existing Harbor District would prefer a sea trade route (especially after the last patch towards Harbor & trade route)

For me though early roads are really important simply because I like to go (literally) wider than most players and do early archer warrior rushes so by the time I got engineers it would probably not be too helpful.

Also on the defense those roads are important.

It's kind of the games way of "incentivizing" you to build an Engineer.

I understand that, but Engineers are too late and those roads are important enough - so it doesn't work, at least I will use annoying & ugly workarounds. Connecting "coastal" cities (up to 2 tiles in between) with "inland" cities (3 tiles in between) ... or convert to 'permanent Trajanism'

 

[Victoria]

@c4c6 i am not 100% sure because I often get those harbors out early but am pretty sure a few months ago it was choosing that route without a harbour, trade routes do not rely on harbours

 

[Jarms48]

That might be one of the reasons why Military Engineers are in the game...

Which would be ridiculously expensive if your city was more than 2 tiles away, with the amount of charges they have and the amount you'd need to build. I don't see why we can't just give the ability to make roads to workers too, place it at engineering on something. Also give it to Legion (which would also be historically accurate).

 

[LethalLeigh]

Military Engineers are a waste for Roads, because they only get 2 chargers.
I think they should have something like 10 chargers and each of their abilities cost a certain amount of charges. Forts and Air Strips cost 5. Missile Silo cost 10, Roads cost 1. remove/improve/repair feature cost 2.
this way I might actually have use for them. At the moment I might build 1 per game, Like the medics which aren't very useful either.

 

[Rosty K]

Military Engineers are a waste for Roads, because they only get 2 chargers.
I think they should have something like 10 chargers and each of their abilities cost a certain amount of charges. Forts and Air Strips cost 5. Missile Silo cost 10, Roads cost 1. remove/improve/repair feature cost 2.
this way I might actually have use for them. At the moment I might build 1 per game, Like the medics which aren't very useful either.

That's because you want a straight road between two coastal cities A trader won't make you that too, if both cities have roads going inland from them - it'll follow that road and create a shortcut somewhere midway. You're supposed to do the same with an engineer (once again, I'm not saying it's good, but that's probably how the developers see it).

By the way from the historical realism perspective this is the most realistic representation of roads in Civ so far. Where the people want to pass, the road will appear. And if the Empire wants the road here and now for its own reasons, it should be prepared to invest in technology and pay a ridiculous cost.

Btw, why can legions build forts, but not roads?

 

[c4c6]

Never experienced this problem with roads though.

Probably this depends heavily on the playing style. In my CIV games I always tried to combine very small military forces (low cost) with excellent infrastructure in order to react swiftly to invasions & rebellions.

"Es bleibt der Logistik vorbehalten, den Traum der Taktik zu gestalten." (It remains reserved to logistics to shape the dream of tactics)

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

Once again @Victoria making way too much sense with each and every comment.