Question about the Great Wall and its effects...

[BTB]

The Great Wall (in vanilla Civ3) doubles the effect of walls in cities that have them.

A city with walls has a 50% defense bonus, whereas a city (size 7-12) has that same 50% bonus. Except the city can't BUILD city walls because it's past size 6.

So, a town with city walls in a civ that owns the Great Wall gives a 100% bonus, whereas a city with no city walls only gives a 50% bonus and can't build any city walls? Or do cities with city walls give a 100% bonus?

I've always wondered about this, but never could find anything out since it's not really something I'd know how to test for.

 

[vmxa]

I doubt it is double in a city. In any event, just don't build it and not worry about it.

 

[BTB]

I doubt it is double in a city. In any event, just don't build it and not worry about it.

That wasn't the response I was looking for.

I'm not a fan of the "ignore it and hope it goes away" approach to knowledge.

 

[darski]

I doubt it is double in a city. In any event, just don't build it and not worry about it.

The problem is that TGW is often the fall back position when a Wonder Cascade happens. Them thar walls can be mighty expensive sometimes.

 

[TheOverseer714]

The GW is in the running for most useless wonder, especially in Vanilla. It does tend to help the AI's more than the human, an AI with the GW is tougher to take down. If you build it, it does keep it away from the AI. Walls only benefit towns(6 population or less), once a town becomes a city(7-12 population), they cease to matter. A city has the same bonus as a town with walls, so if you have the GW, your bonus only helps towns.

 

[vmxa]

That wasn't the response I was looking for.

I'm not a fan of the "ignore it and hope it goes away" approach to knowledge.

It was not an ignore it and it will go away. It was it is not worth building. In C3 it has a bug that lets bombardment destroy wonders. Not sure if that was ever patched as it was years ago.

My point is that you are better off doing something else with shields than making the GW. If you can build it, you do not need it. By that I mean any level that you can make it, the game is easy enough.

Once you get to a level that you cannot get it up before the AI, you could use it, but cannot get it. That does not hold true for variant games.

You only need walls in front line towns. That should be a temporary front as you should keep expanding.

 

[BTB]

Walls only benefit towns(6 population or less), once a town becomes a city(7-12 population), they cease to matter. A city has the same bonus as a town with walls, so if you have the GW, your bonus only helps towns.

Has this been proven, or are we just assuming?

And yes... I'm aware it's a bad wonder. Please quit stating the obvious.

 

[vmxa]

Then stop asking questions that have no proven answer or any value.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I am going by conquests civilopedia, so there might be a difference. The bonus in conquests is only against barbs, but in conquests it gives free walls to your towns. I suppose I could get vanilla running and check for sure. Have you checked in the war academy?

 

[BTB]

I am going by conquests civilopedia, so there might be a difference. The bonus in conquests is only against barbs, but in conquests it gives free walls to your towns. I suppose I could get vanilla running and check for sure. Have you checked in the war academy?

Yeah, nothing in the War Academy says anything about it. I'd appreciate any verification you can get out of the game itself.

And since I keep getting accused of asking pointless questions, I suppose I might as well state that if the bonus DOES, in fact, offer 100% defense bonuses to cities, then modding the Great Wall to grant walls in every city as well as double their bonuses will make it a very GOOD wonder, if not an overpowered one.

You know, much like it was in Civ 2. Now can we stop with the Great Wall bashing and actually attempt to answer the question at hand?

 

[TheOverseer714]

The Great Wall doubles the effect of walls in cities that have them. Straight from the Vanilla civilopedia. That's pretty much the only thing different from the conquests 'pedia. I think the behavior of walls is in the 'pedia too, but it's pretty slim pickings. I guess even Firaxis didn't pay much attention to that wonder and the improvement it affects.

 

[BTB]

I guess the question would be whether or not the walls stop WORKING in cities?

 

[MAS]

I was under the impression that the GW just provided a free walls structure in every city, just as the pyramids give a free granary.

 

[Theov]

Yes, walls become absolete in cities, so they have no effect - and the effect of the GW is lost too, because the GW has nothing to double.

 

[darski]

I was under the impression that the GW just provided a free walls structure in every city, just as the pyramids give a free granary.

That change came with a later expansion. it is not the case in Vanilla.

 

[MAS]

Well, if that is true, then the bug vmxa talked about in post #6 is also something from the expansions, and shouldn't occur in vanilla.

In the mean time... I've searched for the info, and according to my information, the GW in vanilla doubles the effect of walls vs barbarians.
This means it only has any effect at all if a barbarian units attacks a unit inside one of your towns.

But how often do you let a barbarian unit do that?

 

[BTB]

Well, if that is true, then the bug vmxa talked about in post #6 is also something from the expansions, and shouldn't occur in vanilla.

In the mean time... I've searched for the info, and according to my information, the GW in vanilla doubles the effect of walls vs barbarians.
This means it only has any effect at all if a barbarian units attacks a unit inside one of your towns.

But how often do you let a barbarian unit do that?

No, you're misreading it. It doubles the effect of city walls AND it doubles your combat strength versus barbarians in any encounter with them- not just when defending in a city.

 

[Diviner]

doubled strength against the barbs!
surely the one and the only wonder

 

[BTB]

Meh... on the higher difficulty levels, maybe.

 

[timerover51]

The Great Wall (in vanilla Civ3) doubles the effect of walls in cities that have them.

A city with walls has a 50% defense bonus, whereas a city (size 7-12) has that same 50% bonus. Except the city can't BUILD city walls because it's past size 6.

So, a town with city walls in a civ that owns the Great Wall gives a 100% bonus, whereas a city with no city walls only gives a 50% bonus and can't build any city walls? Or do cities with city walls give a 100% bonus?

I've always wondered about this, but never could find anything out since it's not really something I'd know how to test for.

I went and checked the Civ3 editor for what the Wall does, as sometimes the Civilopedia does not match the actual factors. It double the cities DEFENSES, not just walls, so it doubles the city defense factor regardless of what it is. It also doubles combat strength verses barbarians wherever they are encountered, including at sea. It can be modded to add walls to every city built in Vanilla.

Personally, i find it very useful, given the defense bonus, and the bonus against barbarians, given the fact that I like to play on huge maps, where I run into them a lot, or on Turkhan's Test of Time, where the barbarians are very nasty.