Question about treaties and AI attitudes

[Tasslehoff]

Alright, in my current game, I was almost done eliminating the Carthaginians (they had two island cities left), and had an alliance with the gracious Germans against them. The alliance had about 10 turns left, when I find Germany has made peace with Carthage, breaking the alliance and ending a luxury trade I had with them . Immediately, about half of my cities fall into civil disorder, and I go to Bismarck to renew the luxury trade. Reaching the screen, I find he is now... furious with me! Looking at the other civs, all of them are now annoyed at me, when before they were either polite or cautious. It would appear that the Germans breaking the treaty caused my reputation to go down! Is this true, or am I just missing something ?

Anyway, now that the Germans are furious at me, they came and demanded electricity. I told them to stuff it and they declared war. In less than 10 turns, the Germans went from my gracious allies against Carthage to furious enemies.

 

[Mailman_Posty]

So.......... Whats the question again

 

[Jokeslayer]

It would appear that the Germans breaking the treaty caused my reputation to go down! Is this true, or am I just missing something ?

I have no idea. I've never seen anything like that (not that that's saying a lot). Maybe the breaking of the luxury trades was interpreted as being your fault, or something.

 

[Tasslehoff]

So.......... Whats the question again

I was wondering why Germans breaking a treaty affects my rep with them and other civs.

@Jokeslayer, thanks for the thoughts. I suppose that makes sense, but it's still strange...

 

[Bartleby]

Having the alliance with Germany gives them a much improved attitude towards you; in addition to this, while they are your allies, the Germans overlook bad stuff you have done to the Carthaginians (such as razing or abandoning Carthaginian cities). So when the alliance ends not only do you lose the positive attitude boost of the alliance but you gain the negative attitude effects too. Hence Gracious to Furious.
I don't know why everone else's attitude would change. Did that happen suddenly, when the alliance ended, or over a few turns? Did you raze and abandon a lot?

I think that so long as you are not supplying and per-turn goods or gold as part of the alliance, your reputation should not be affected if they make peace.

 

[Delphi456]

If you captured/razed a Carthage city that was connected to a resource that was being traded with another civ, would that account for the attitude hit?

 

[drakdan]

no it wouldn't. My guess is that you broke the luxury trade route somehow. Are you in an earlier age? You don't mention if you were able to trade luxuries AGAIN after Germany became furious.
You can test my theory by trying to trade for luxuries and by seeing if Germany is still at war with Carthage, assuming you have not played too far into the future.

 

[Tasslehoff]

Having the alliance with Germany gives them a much improved attitude towards you; in addition to this, while they are your allies, the Germans overlook bad stuff you have done to the Carthaginians (such as razing or abandoning Carthaginian cities). So when the alliance ends not only do you lose the positive attitude boost of the alliance but you gain the negative attitude effects too. Hence Gracious to Furious.
I don't know why everone else's attitude would change. Did that happen suddenly, when the alliance ended, or over a few turns? Did you raze and abandon a lot?

I think that so long as you are not supplying and per-turn goods or gold as part of the alliance, your reputation should not be affected if they make peace.

I was trading my luxuries for theirs as part of the alliance. I understand that the lack of an alliance would lower their attitude, but I didn't think it would be so extreme. I'm fairly sure everyone else's attitudes changed suddenly, but it may have been more gradual then I thought. During the war, I actually razed very few cities. I think I razed a total of four compared to 20+ captured, and most of the razings were earlier in the war.

no it wouldn't. My guess is that you broke the luxury trade route somehow. Are you in an earlier age? You don't mention if you were able to trade luxuries AGAIN after Germany became furious.
You can test my theory by trying to trade for luxuries and by seeing if Germany is still at war with Carthage, assuming you have not played too far into the future.

I was one or two techs into the industrial age, and I know I didn't break the luxury trade route, the Germans broke the luxury trades by making peace. Germany is no longer at war with Carthage, having made peace and causing this whole mess.

 

[Bartleby]

I was trading my luxuries for theirs as part of the alliance. I understand that the lack of an alliance would lower their attitude, but I didn't think it would be so extreme. I'm fairly sure everyone else's attitudes changed suddenly, but it may have been more gradual then I thought. During the war, I actually razed very few cities. I think I razed a total of four compared to 20+ captured, and most of the razings were earlier in the war.

Did you abandon any cities? in my experience the attitude hit for this can be much worse than razing (but I think this is linked to some kind of bug relating to eliminated civs).

 

[Tone]

Not anything new to add-just to confirm that this type of thing can happen when an alliance breaks down. I've had it more times than I can remember. This is especially true if you are hurting them badly by razing cities. Razing is a big no-no if you are worried about AI attitude. Then again if you are not going for Diplo, attitude really isn't that much of a deal if you are stronger than your rivals. Normally it's the rep that is more valuable but if you don't break the deals you should maintain that.

If I am playing this type of game and I want the alliance to continue, I'll trade for an immediate renewal of the alliance. They are not so keen to break it a second time and it is more likely that other civs will be brought into the conflict.

 

[Elite]

The AI genera;;y don't trust me once I hit Modern age, they say making a deal with me is like making a deal with the devil, lol.

When infact, I'm useally the only thing keeping their economies alive and kicking, along with preserving them from my armies.