Question about units and brute unit

[civRookieGr]

The brute unit is overproduced by barbarian cities and AI cities when they have not resources & buildings. It becomes annoying when they produce more than 5(example,I have seen 15/turn) brutes per turn and your army cannot kill more than they are producing. Questions: 1. Atlatlist is a unit that has only technology requirement, why does not take place of the brute unit? 2. Why 2-3 era old units are not obsolete? 3. Why every era has not a default unit (only technology requirement) , like the militia(spawns after farm is placed on tile, req civic) ? thanks.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have asked similar questions to no avail

2. Units can only be made obsolete in BtS when all their replacement or upgrade units are available to be made. In C2C it is possible to force a unit to be obsolete at a tech but doing so has to be done with care as it can make earlier units available as their upgrade is not available any more.

 

[Thunderbrd]

1) I don't know. It should. It's a bug in the AI somewhere that I've known about for a while. One of the many overwhelmingly difficult things to have to address before real progress could ever be made here. It's actually a fairly serious bug because the unit counts this pushes the barbs up to will crash the game and cause severe lag if barbs are allowed to survive far enough into the game where they hoard these units in their cities.

2) There must be something with barbarian code somewhere that keeps a unit from going obsolete. Another problem given what I just mentioned.

3) Nobody has ever proposed it to my knowledge. Good idea. At least when you consider this. Now someone needs to be motivated to ensure that. One problem here is this string of questions: "What advanced unit needs no equipment? If you cannot equip them properly, how can you train them? So how can there be a unit with no equipment (and thus resource) needs defined for each era?" Mostly these questions are answered by the Post Apocalyptic units after a point.


I did try to address this problem when I saw it being done by neanderthal cities but didn't realize until later that the problem would be much deeper in the coding of barbarian unit build selections, a very not-simple region.

 

[Zanden]

A simple militia style unit could be opened up with each Lifestyle technology, utilizing only what the basic equipment of the previous era would have in great abundance.
The stats/build cost would likely need to be comparable to an early unit from the previous era, but not worth making an army out of them since you would be getting it at the very end of that era.

An example could be reaching the modern era and having units that utilize older bolt-action rifles, that might exist privately owned, scavenged, surplus locally or from other countries.
Cheap or stolen death rays/plasma beams/rifles/bows/swords falling into the hands of barbarians or rebels could happen.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

Lifestyle Tech making the gateway for Militia for non-resource unit to fall back upon would be I think best, you could give them a name tied to the lifestyle that unlocks them, up until Renaissance it's not that difficult to implement,
either Militia weapons or farming equipment that works for a fight as well, plenty of examples can be found throughout history for that, after Gunpowder becomes the norm I'm unsure, I also don't know the Lifestyles after renaissance, if 1800 I don't know, if 1900 basically anything used in the 1850's, for Modern Militia basically AK-47's or anything else used in Africa, After that, probably common mass produced weapons that would be used,

for Stats Probably tied to either the unit that used those weapons, or the last set of units of the previous era, maybe with the additional malus that they don't get XP from recruitment seeing that they're militia?

 

[IdioticUlt1mara]

Brutes never go obselete is the problem here. You can build them yourself if you actually turn off "hide obsolete units". Well I think that is the case, I have never actually tried this, but on some of my playthrough - and others that I have watched - the AI will just spew out brutes cause they are sooooo cheap to build. This is an insanely good defensive tactic, terrible offensive tactic. You can actually also do this with the "size matter" option to an even greater extent.

Say you build 2-3 units a turn, you can then split that unit into another 3 units - so 6-9 units. Then depeding on the era you can split them again and again which in turn means you get 3 times as many units as you had after each split. Makes it near impossible to take a city, except with collateral damage units.

 

[raxo2222]

@Thunderbrd can I force-obsolete brutes on Sedentary/Classical Lifestyle?

It appears similar unit, Stone Thrower, is obsoleted at Flintlock.
I guess I'll forceobsolete Brute at Flintlock too.

 

[Thunderbrd]

@Thunderbrd can I force-obsolete brutes on Sedentary/Classical Lifestyle?

It appears similar unit, Stone Thrower, is obsoleted at Flintlock.
I guess I'll forceobsolete Brute at Flintlock too.

I doubt there will be any problem from that.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have never seen this Brute problem in my games. You can only build it if you have the game option that allows you to build obsolete units. Perhaps that option should be removed?

 

[Thunderbrd]

You can only build it if you have the game option that allows you to build obsolete units.

There is no option that allows you to build obsolete units. Unless it's something in the BUG options I'm unaware of.

 

[raxo2222]

There is no option that allows you to build obsolete units. Unless it's something in the BUG options I'm unaware of.

Yeah, there are BUG options, that shows obsolete units, buildings and improvements if "hide x" is disabled.

 

[civRookieGr]

@Thunderbrd can I force-obsolete brutes on Sedentary/Classical Lifestyle?

It appears similar unit, Stone Thrower, is obsoleted at Flintlock.
I guess I'll forceobsolete Brute at Flintlock too.

Please do also the Neanderthal brute unit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal

 

[Thunderbrd]

Yeah, there are BUG options, that shows obsolete units, buildings and improvements if "hide x" is disabled.

Doesn't do anything to the AI which sees these options whether you've determined to not allow the UI to show you as a player or not. The options still exist for you even if you don't see them.

 

[raxo2222]

Doesn't do anything to the AI which sees these options whether you've determined to not allow the UI to show you as a player or not. The options still exist for you even if you don't see them.

I know, I was talking about players not AI.

 

[Thunderbrd]

The discussion was about the AI overtraining brutes - not sure where players came into it.

 

[raxo2222]

The discussion was about the AI overtraining brutes - not sure where players came into it.

Players can use BUG options to hide/show all unconstructable/replaced/obsolete options.

 

[DanoWisdom]

How were you able to make some units unable to accept certain promotions in the World Builder? For example, it now seems that only "Hero" units can get the Attack Multiple Times promotion (early on, anyway). But if I'm creating a scenario and want to give a special unit the "Blitz" promotion, it doesn't seem to stick if I go into world builder, check the box for that promotion and then return to the game. Any way for me to make that happen

 

[Raven Destroyer]

Units are being checked if they're allowed to have certain promotions, if they're not allowed to have that Promotion it will get removed, There are various promotions that do similar things, you might be able to get that Multiple Attack using a Different promotion that has it too

 

[Thunderbrd]

Blitz, as an ability, is generally withheld access to until later eras so as to give more modern units another display of expanding power capability.

 

[tmv]

Blitz, as an ability, is generally withheld access to until later eras so as to give more modern units another display of expanding power capability.

The big exception to this are Master Hunters - another reason to have them.