Question re: Rubicon by Tom Holland

[steviejay]

I got bored at the weekend and went to Barnes and Noble and stocked up on some history books to counter the bordem I get by spending hours on trains to work every day and one I got was Rubicon by Tom Holland. I got this for two reason 1. I read his book Persian Fire and loved it and 2. It aparantly is quite a popular book so it must be doing something right.

Now my question is more on something mentioned in his book rather than the book itself.

Page 60 (soft back) Chapter 2 on The Sibyl Curse. Just at the end of the chapter and I quote-

'Once again, it seemed, the Gods were speaking through strange signs of the Republics doom. Most ominous of all was a trumpet, heard ringing out from a clear, cloudless sky. So dismal was its note that all those who heard it were driven half mad with fear. The augurs nervously consulted their books (the scrolls of Sibyl) When they did so they found, to their horror, that the meaning of such a wonder left little room for doubt: a great convulsion in the order of things was approaching. One age would pass away, another would dawn, in a revolution fated to consume the world'

Could anyone please explain to me in further details this "trumpet sound heard ringing out from a clear, cloudless sky". Was this an actual sound or something else?

Also, is this where the Christian idea came from where, the coming of Judgement day and the Apocalypse will be heralded by Trumpets blown from the Heavens?

 

[Asclepius]

Do you know the year this event occurred? It sounds to me like the "trumpet sound" is describing the eruption of Mount Etna in 44BC, ironically just after the death of Julius Caesar.

 

[steviejay]

no, it's 89BC, the fact they refered to it as a trumpet rather than a rumble usually associated with a volcano makes me wonder.....

 

[Asclepius]

I realise trumpets sound a little different than eruptions I thought he was being creative with language! Not many people would be "driven half mad with fear" by a real trumpet!

I can't think of anything other than the social war and Sulla's dictatorship which would have heralded the end of the Republic as early as 89 BC. That still doesn't explain the trumpets though...

 

[steviejay]

I realise trumpets sound a little different than eruptions I thought he was being creative with language! Not many people would be "driven half mad with fear" by a real trumpet!

you've not heard my ex-girlfriend play

Sulla's dictatorship is just coming up. He's talking about Pontus atm. It's just, after I read it I immediately thought thats where the Church stole the idea of Judgement Day from

 

[Asclepius]

God, surely she can't be any worse than you lot playing the bagpipes?!

 

[7ronin]

Tom Holland is primarily a radio personality and a novelist. His non-fiction books (histories) have been noted as taking a certain "poetic license."

 

[Stolen Rutters]

In books, if it were an actual story referenced from a previous work, there would theoretically be a small sub- or super-script number relating where the source came from. Rubicon was very easy to read and put alot of the dry facts from previous works I had read into a coherent form. Poetic license, I can believe. It's quite poetically written.

I actually thought it was thunder, considering that it was important enough to note that people freaked because the sky was clear when it happened. Plus if it were dismal in note, we definitely are not thinking of the smooth trumpet sound we so remember when we hear the word.

We don't know what they meant by trumpet if that was what it was described as contemporarily... short blurt? loud blast? jazz riff? Did it happen at all, or what it added later by people taking their own poetic license? It's not unheard of.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

God, surely she can't be any worse than you lot playing the bagpipes?!

You take that back!

Steviejay: how is the book in general, I've had my eye on it for a while, but haven't bought it yet. I'm interested in learning about the Romans, and obviously want a good book to break into the subject with.

 

[steviejay]

Overall the book is good, I enjoyed it and read it in just under 2 days. Personally I didn't enjoy it as much as Persian Fire but I think that was slightly due to the fact that the more I read about Roman Politics and all the (literal) backstabbing involved I kept saying to myself......... how the hell could they function like that.

I'm now reading a book on the enemies of Rome and how, despite what the Romans said, they weren't barbarians but actually growing civilizations before they got roman-ised. After that I've got the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and then I've got an Adrian Goldsworthy book on the Roman military. I spend alot of times on trains.....

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

Bless, where do you work?

I may still buy Rubicon, but do you have any books to recomend for the beginner Roman historian?

 

[Asclepius]

If you are interested in a tip from a bagpipe hater....

If you are looking for a general grounding in Roman history I'd have to recommend A History of Rome by Marcel le Glay. It is more of a college text book than entertaining story, but don't let that put you off. I have the older second edition but it has recently been updated as a third edition. It is very comprehensive, easy to read and really quite complete considering the time span it covers. It is very useful when searching for a specific snippet of info as it is completely chronological. I certainly wouldn't recommend Gibbon anyway. Far too biased and out of date. I would recommend you read that after you already have a good understanding of the period.

 

[Kan' Sharuminar]

Cheers Asclepius, you may be a bagpipe heretic, but I'll take your word and look out for the book

And don't worry about how the book is written, I've gone through many a history book that seemed to be written for college than for general reading.

 

[steviejay]

Yeah, Rubicon "ain't" that good at a basic starter into the History of Rome, it talks too much about the politics of the Republic asnd it's demise rather than Rome in general. Although I did pick up some interesting facts. such as the Romans used to sell wine to the Gauls at extorsionate prices and they used to get incredibly drunk because they'd never had it before. so much so that the Germanic tribes east of the Rhine banned it for import.

I tried reading Levy's book on Rome, but it's....... dry

 

[Eli]

I read Rubicon a few weeks ago and didnt like it too much. Sure, it's nice and easy and interesting, but it's also confused, disorganized and too "poetic". It's only possible use is to encourage interest in Roman History.

 

[steviejay]

Eli, I actually think it's not that good at encouraging Interest. It's too political. It all centers on the wheeling and dealing of Rome and the Senate. I'm still on the look out for that definitative book on Roman history.

Also I meant to add about my previous post. the idea of the Romans shipping out wine to the Gaulic tribes kinda reminded me of 'Firewater' with Native Americans heh

 

[Eli]

Eli, I actually think it's not that good at encouraging Interest. It's too political. It all centers on the wheeling and dealing of Rome and the Senate.

That's a good point. Nevertheless, the book is not dry as the "real" history books and it's not filled with a succession of names and dates. But you're right, there definetely could've been more focus on non-political issues.