Question regarding souls

warpus

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This is a question directed at Christians, but anyone else feel free to answer.

We've had a lot of religious threads here, and it got me thinking. Does God create souls, or have they existed forever, along with him?

Which scenario do Christians believe to be true?

1. There is a large pool of souls available to God; these have existed forever along with him. Whenever a new life is conceived, God takes an already existing soul and puts it in the body of the fetus.

2. God creates a soul whenever new life is conceived and puts it in the newly created fetus.

Now, I've heard Christians say things like "Souls are immortal".. but I'm not sure if that is actual Christian doctorine. Can anyone clarify?

If 1. is true then what happens when God runs out of souls? Does he create new ones, or is the world over? Or maybe he plucks a couple from hell/heaven and starts putting those into bodies?

Don't ask me why this question popped in my mind :)
 
How do we know which god said this since the scriptures we know of him have changed over the centuries? It comes to the point of which god, and if they themselves are the object and/or subject.

If you assume a god is the subject or object then yes, he or she is itself the very thing you talk about.

A better question to ask is what is the ultimate intention or motive of a particular god. Not only important what they create, but why, and how they do it. I'm just asking simply.
 
warpus said:
This is a question directed at Christians, but anyone else feel free to answer.

We've had a lot of religious threads here, and it got me thinking. Does God create souls, or have they existed forever, along with him?

Which scenario do Christians believe to be true?

I don't know, it's something that is not resolved in my mind. But given God exists outside of time the question may turn out to have no meaning.
 
Good thread warpus, I have sometimes discussed with some folks about this and never came clear conclusion. I have my own opinions of course but would like to see how people with religion explain this.
JoeM said:
I don't know, it's something that is not resolved in my mind. But given God exists outside of time the question may turn out to have no meaning.
Well, the question is where we came from?

If christianity explains were we are going after death it would be nice to know where we came from. Or does the mother and father souls somehow copulate as well?
 
warpus said:
If 1. is true then what happens when God runs out of souls? Does he create new ones, or is the world over? Or maybe he plucks a couple from hell/heaven and starts putting those into bodies?
Maybe God have an infinity amount of souls.
 
Ok, this is going in a circle, someone starting a thread concerning some aspect about a subject we don't know everything about. If someone wants to appear (pun intended) and demonstrate this soul creation before my eyes it might alleviate doubt about its existence.

Not like it is a bad thing to debate, but it gets redundant to talk about a subject that might claim to be everything, perfect, and imperfect at the same time.

Instead, I'll try to skip out on these debates because they seem pointless and go bowling with a human said. At least with this imperfect thing I know I will get a real complete answer to things that fit some facts science teaches us.

:)
 
C~G said:
Well, the question is where we came from?

If christianity explains were we are going after death it would be nice to know where we came from. Or does the mother and father souls somehow copulate as well?

Not that simple, the question includes time-related issues; are souls already existance or created.

Souls are not created by humans, they are created by God - but are they created at the moment of conception or are they 'added' from somewhere else at that moment.

'We' come from God.
 
I'd like to propose another time-related option that's a mix of the first two: At the beginning, God created enough souls for everyone who will ever live, and those are distributed as time passes.
 
So there is nothing about this in the Bible?

It covers what happens to souls when we die, I find it surprising that it doesn't discuss where the souls come from in the first place.

For some reason, I always assumed that Christians believed that souls were 'eternal', much like God, though.
 
Souls are created by God, so option two in the OP's post would be the best one.
 
Soul is a music genre that combines rhythm and blues and gospel music originating in the late 1950s in the United States.

Rhythm and blues (a combination of blues and jazz) arose in the 1940s as small groups of predominately African-American musicians built upon the blues tradition. Soul music is differentiated from rhythm and blues by its use of gospel-music devices, its greater emphasis on vocalists, and its merging of religious and secular themes.

Sam Cooke, Ray Charles and James Brown are considered the earliest pioneers of soul music. Solomon Burke's early recordings for Atlantic Records codified the style, and his early 1960s recordings Cry to Me, Just Out of Reach and Down in the Valley are considered classics of the genre. Peter Guralnick writes, "it was only with the coming together of Burke and Atlantic Records that you could see anything resembling a movement."

In Memphis, Tennessee, Stax Records produced recordings by Otis Redding, Wilson Pickett and Don Covay (who also recorded in New York City for Atlantic). Joe Tex's 1965 The Love You Save is a classic soul recording. An important center of soul music recording was Florence, Alabama, where the Fame Studios operated. Jimmy Hughes, Percy Sledge and Arthur Alexander recorded at Fame; Aretha Franklin recorded in the area later in the 1960s. Fame Studios, often referred to as Muscle Shoals (after a town neighboring Florence), enjoyed a close relationship with Stax, and many of the musicians and producers who worked in Memphis contributed to recordings done in Alabama.

Another important Memphis label was Goldwax Records, owned by Quinton Claunch. Goldwax signed O. V. Wright and James Carr, who went on to make several records that are considered essentials of the genre. Carr's The Dark End of the Street (written by Chips Moman and Dan Penn) was recorded at two other important Memphis studios — Royal Recording and American Sound Studios — in 1967. American Studios owner Chips Moman produced Dark End of the Street, and the musicians were his house band of Reggie Young, Bobby Woods, Tommy Cogbill and Gene Chrisman. Carr also made recordings at Fame, utilizing musicians David Hood, Jimmy Johnson and Roger Hawkins.

Aretha Franklin's 1967 recordings, such as I Never Loved a Man That Way I Love You, Respect (originally sung by Otis Redding), and Do Right Woman-Do Right Man, are considered to be the apogee of the soul music genre, and were among its most commercially successful productions. During this period, Stax artists such as Eddie Floyd and Johnnie Taylor made significant contributions to soul music. Howard Tate's recordings in the late 1960s for Verve Records, and later for Atlantic (produced by Jerry Ragovoy) are another important body of work in the soul genre.

By 1968, the soul music movement had begun to splinter, as James Brown and Sly & the Family Stone began to expand upon and abstract both soul and rhythm and blues into other forms. As Guralnick writes, "More than anything else, though, what seems to me to have brought the era of soul to a grinding, unsettling halt was the death of Martin Luther King in April of 1968."

Later examples of soul music include recordings by The Staple Singers (such as I'll Take You There), and Al Green's 1970s recordings, done at Willie Mitchell's Royal Recording in Memphis. Mitchell's Hi Records continued the Stax tradition in that decade, releasing many hits by Green, Ann Peebles, Otis Clay, O. V. Wright and Syl Johnson. Bobby Womack, who recorded with Chips Moman in the late 1960s, continued to produce soul recordings in the 1970s and 1980s.

The city of Detroit produced some important later soul recordings. Producer Don Davis worked with Stax artists such as Johnnie Taylor and The Dramatics. Early-1970s recordings by The Detroit Emeralds, such as Do Me Right, are an important link between soul and the later disco style. Motown Records artists such as Marvin Gaye and Smokey Robinson contributed to the evolution of soul music, although their recordings were considered more in a pop music vein that those of Redding, Franklin and Carr.


Marvin Gaye on the cover of his classic 1971 album What's Going On.Although stylistically different from classic soul music, recordings by Chicago-based artists such as Jerry Butler and The Chi-Lites are often considered part of the genre.

By the early 1970s, soul music had been influenced by psychedelic rock and other genres. The social and political ferment of the times inspired artists like Gaye and Curtis Mayfield to release album-length statements with hard-hitting social commentary. Artists like James Brown led soul towards funk music, which became typified by 1970s bands like Parliament-Funkadelic, The Meters. More versatile groups like War, the Commodores and Earth, Wind and Fire became popular around this time. During the 1970s, some slick and commercial blue-eyed soul acts like Philadelphia's Hall & Oates achieved mainstream success, as did a new generation of street-corner harmony or city-soul groups like The Delfonics and Howard University's Unifics.

By the end of the 1970s, disco and funk were dominating the charts. Philly soul and most other soul genres were dominated by disco-inflected tracks. During this period, groups like The O'Jays and The Spinners continued to turn out hits.

After the death of disco in the early 1980s, soul music survived for a short time before going through yet another metamorphisis. With the introduction of influences from electro music and funk, soul music became less raw and more slickly produced, resulting in a newer genre that was called R&B, which sounded very different from the original rhythm and blues style. This new version of R&B was ofen labelled contemporary R&B.
 
Here, I have given you this to check out:

http://bibleresources.bible.com/key...soul&version=31&Submit.x=25&Submit.y=5&page=6

It has all the references to 'soul' in the Bible.

After browsing through them, I can say that yes, the soul does last forever.
Check out the Revelation 20 quote on the last page of that search. It shows John (who received the vision) being introduced to the 'souls who were killed for the testimony of Jesus..."

I'm not so sure about whether or not God actually 'puts' souls into a fetus... it seems more accurate to say that God created Adam and Eve to produce souls in their children... and it is a natural product of that union. I don't think he has a collection that gets plucked out each time a kid is born.

It's more like God gave Adam and Eve 'dominion' and the natural reproducing process includes a soul automatically. We are made in His imagine and we create life in our children. That life includes a soul.

Still, God says to several prophets that 'before you were born, I knew you.' So God does have knowledge of these souls and can love them ahead of birth. That makes me think more of a Father holding his baby, really, before that baby can communicate - the father can love him and cherish him.

God is also omniscient, lives in timelessness, so He can know us past, present and future before it happens.

The soul is what loves, yearns, rejoices, remembers, laments, rests, and most importantly has free will and faith. The soul is evidently that which separates humans from all other species.

One of my favorite scriptures in the Bible:

Jesus said, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

Beautiful, isn't it?:crazyeye:
 
The Room/Chamber of Guf is the repository of a finite number of souls to be endowed unto physical bodies.

wiki said:
Every time an infant is born, this is where its soul comes from. Folklore says sparrows can see the soul's descent and this explains their song. But a day will come when the sparrow sings no more, because there are only a finite number of souls in The Guf. It's when the last soul is used, The Guf is empty and the world will end. The first infant born without a soul, born dead as a soulless child must be, heralds the death of the world, and so is called The Final Sign. The Chamber of Guf must be empty for the Messiah to come.

The anime Neon Genesis Evangelion makes central use of this concept in its overall plot.

In Dungeons & Dragons, the diety Jergal has been called the "Counter of Sparrows"
 
Erik, where on earth did you get this:


__________________
Shame! Misguided God-dropouts, staggering under their guilt-baggage. Gang of miscreants, band of vandals. Quit your worship charades. I can't stand your trivial religious games: Monthly conferences, weekly Sabbaths, special meetings - Meetings for this, meetings for that. I hate them! I'm sick of your religion, religion, religion, while you go right on sinning. You've been tearing people to pieces, and your hands are bloody. Clean up your act. Sweep your lives clean of your evildoings so I don't have to look at them any longer. Say no to wrong. Learn to do good. Work for justice. Help the down-and-out. Stand up for the homeless. Go to bat for the defenseless.
-God (Isaiah 1)

==================

That is the coolest thing I have read in soooooooooo long.

Did you do that?

I'm stealin' it! I love it!
 
By the end of the 1970s, disco and funk were dominating the charts. Philly soul and most other soul genres were dominated by disco-inflected tracks. During this period, groups like The O'Jays and The Spinners continued to turn out hits.

After the death of disco in the early 1980s, soul music survived for a short time before going through yet another metamorphisis. With the introduction of influences from electro music and funk, soul music became less raw and more slickly produced, resulting in a newer genre that was called R&B, which sounded very different from the original rhythm and blues style. This new version of R&B was ofen labelled contemporary R&B.

=====================

You know Mike, I was just thinking a couple of days ago how much I miss the disco and funk music from the '70s. I just hate what it turned into, rap.

There is nothing that gets the blood pumping like The K.C. Sunshine Company or Kool and the Gang or Sly and the Family Stone. Such a shame to lose such terrific music. :mad:
 
LDS view:

Our souls have been organized by God from pre-existing "intelligences" as we call them. Thus a part of us is eternally us from the beginning (the matter that makes up our bodies also eternally pre-existant as well). When God organized them, there was a finite number I guess, but that number is in the trillions of trillions - earth is not the only planet with beings that have souls, and I think humans are not the only beings with souls (the latter being my speculation).
 
There is but one Soul that, from within the illusion that is the universe, appears as many.
 
Roman Catholic view (Summarised and paraphrased from the Catechism of the Catholic Church):

Where does the soul come from?
The spiritual soul does not come from one's parent but is created immediately by God and is immortal. It does not perish at the moment when it is separated from the body in death and it will once again be reunited with the body at the moment of the final resurrection.
CCC: 362-365, 366-368, 382
 
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