Question?

[ronning]

I was thinking about a series of " great battles" but would anyone really want to sit there and move hundreds of units? ( except me )


Battlefields with historically based troop strengths and position.

There are certainly the units made to get it done ... But would anyone play it?

 

[Lionic]

Why not? Especially presuming that many units will be killed in the first turns.

 

[ronning]

Why not? Especially presuming that many units will be killed in the first turns.

True. I'm thinking "Panzer General" meets civ 3

Limited turns, and specific objectives. Allot of army units.

HQ king unit.

Limited scale.
"battle of the bulge"
25 turns, Germans must capture Antwerp. ( example )

I've got some ideas on how to preserve the units , making that kind of 1 turn assault a loser, but I'm not sure how the AI would play.

I think I'll throw something together and see where it gos

 

[Mopean]

Sounds like an interesting idea - I'd play it.

Oh, also, cool to see another Civver in Vegas.

 

[ronning]

I could get into this

 

[Blue Monkey]

Thought about something like this, but with Kurukshetra War since i'm more of an ancients guy. There are plenty of units, but what would you do with the rest of the game engine? Use the tech tree for event triggers as in RFRE?

 

[Civinator]

True. I'm thinking "Panzer General" meets civ 3

-Several "battles" could be connected to a campaign via the conquests-option.

- Don´t forget, the game needs at least one city (or a settler which can build a city), otherwise the game will be automatically cancelled.

- The AI will perform horribly with the normal setting of landartillery, as it will retreat all arty to the city (or the cities), what will become a huge advantage for the human player if the arty is not able to fire over the complete battlefield (what would be an additional problem for the king-concept). May be here a setting for landarty as in SOE or CCM should be considered.

- The AI has massive problems with armies, and even 1-unit-armies are not working as well as the human player can handle his armies (another huge advantage for the human player).

I like the idea and even did some testing, long times ago. The North-African campaign in WWII could be a very good theme, even when considering the number of units on the map.

 

[Ozymandias]

I dunno. I'm a looong-time wargamer, having started play-testing for (does anyone here remember?) SPI in 1972

I've shifted my "World War Zero / 7 Years War Global" to "World War Zero 1701-1760" as I realized that (for me, anyway) an integral part of the Civ experience is a well-done Tech Tree, which doesn't cover, e.g., the timespan of the 7 Years War in any meaningful or interesting way.

Just my POV.


Best,

Oz

 

[Civinator]

Tech Tree

Ah, forgot that: The techtree becomes a calendar with fixed minimal/maximal research turns. In SOE I made the scale for the calendar monthly, for some battles may be the scale may be hours. Of course in some hours won´t be researched a lot, but many things can happen.

 

[Moosezilla]

Oz, blast from the past. We went to Origins I. Back O/T, yes this old grognard would play it/them. Might be just the thing for 2-player hot-seat.

 

[Gojira54]

OF course we would play it! Although as mentioned above, there would be some difficult challenges.

 

[Blue Monkey]

I dunno. I'm a looong-time wargamer, having started play-testing for (does anyone here remember?) SPI in 1972

Greg Costikyan is still a "god" in game design & gaming studies circles. Played the Avalon Hill version of Gettysburg in about 1972, iirc. what a revelation Civ was after that! double

 

[ronning]

Greg Costikyan is still a "god" in game design & gaming studies circles. Played the Avalon Hill version of Gettysburg in about 1972, iirc. what a revelation Civ was after that! double

Ah yes , Avalon Hill.

Old school :')

 

[nick0515]

I've often thought this kind of thing might be fun. Even if the AI can't handle it multiplayer would be good.

 

[Vuldacon]

ronning... I think this is a Very Good Idea.

The Tech Tree could be used to bring in Units for events, starting with infantry and working up to Bombing. "Wonders" and Improvements could also be built that would benefit the AI and Players. Medicine, Healing, Special Ammo, Faster Units, etc...

This obviously would require a great deal of thought and testing but a Tech Tree could be made to go with a Great Battle and represent the events and or positions and situations of the Battle rather than an Era.

The Time could be set up to use Days, Months or Years as needed.

As for the AI not using Armies... why not have a strong Unit that is called an Army without actually being one...same animations etc...
"Cities" could be Headquarters and settlers would not be needed. The Separate Factions of the Battle would need Headquarters that would also serve to gain Units, Improvements and "Wonders".

Many Challenging factors to deal with for this type of Civ game but solving them to gain the desired end result would be rewarding.

 

[ronning]

ronning... I think this is a Very Good Idea.

The Tech Tree could be used to bring in Units for events, starting with infantry and working up to Bombing. "Wonders" and Improvements could also be built that would benefit the AI and Players. Medicine, Healing, Special Ammo, Faster Units, etc...

This obviously would require a great deal of thought and testing but a Tech Tree could be made to go with a Great Battle and represent the events and or positions and situations of the Battle rather than an Era.

The Time could be set up to use Days, Months or Years as needed.

As for the AI not using Armies... why not have a strong Unit that is called an Army without actually being one...same animations etc...
"Cities" could be Headquarters and settlers would not be needed. The Separate Factions of the Battle would need Headquarters that would also serve to gain Units, Improvements and "Wonders".

Many Challenging factors to deal with for this type of Civ game but solving them to gain the desired end result would be rewarding.

Or ...

I was thinking of using the Tech tree as an OB Chart. ( Avalon Hil ) "Order of Battle" Showing the unit reinforcements to the battle field.

Its not thought out yet, so it may not be practicle. But just off the top of my head.

I suppose it could also be done with buidings, if this model is used with OB Chart.

Research time reduced to 1. The buildings are set to deliver the reinforcements on a per turn basis.

 

[Civinator]

Or ...

I was thinking of using the Tech tree as an OB Chart. ( Avalong Hil ) "Order of Battle" Showing the unit reinforcements to the battle field.

Its not thought out yet, so it may not be practicle. But just off the top of my head.

I suppose it could also be dont with buidings, if this model is used with OB Chart.

Research time reduced to 1. The buildings are set to deliver the reinforcements on a per turn basis.

ronning, the unit reinforcements are the events.

 

[timerover51]

I dunno. I'm a looong-time wargamer, having started play-testing for (does anyone here remember?) SPI in 1972

I've shifted my "World War Zero / 7 Years War Global" to "World War Zero 1701-1760" as I realized that (for me, anyway) an integral part of the Civ experience is a well-done Tech Tree, which doesn't cover, e.g., the timespan of the 7 Years War in any meaningful or interesting way.

Just my POV.


Best,

Oz

Hmm, you beat me, as I did not know about SPI until 1975, and I still have a lot of the games.

 

[Vuldacon]

ronning... yes, the Tech Tree as you have started it is the way to go.
Even if you only want one "Headquarters" for each Faction, you can pre-place improvements and or Wonders that can serve to gain units as needed for the continuing Battle.
...with enough improvements and Wonders, you could set up when and how many units come into the Battle when desired.

The reason I suggest Pre-placing the improvements and Wonders is to make sure they are there rather than trying to have the AI build them during the War. Resources can be set up for the improvements and Wonders with timing that will start the Auto-productions of the units.
If more "cities" are needed to gain what is required for the Battle you could add more and call them a Barracks, then use a Barracks for the city graphics file.
Changing the Cities graphics for all of the cities would be the way to go if more "cities" are needed for Game play purposes.

Note: The AI will build Wonders at the start of a Game even if at War if the Wonders are set up as desirable (the AI Loves increases Food and Shields for example) and build fast... also require that no unit is attacking the "city" where the Wonder is to be built when the game starts. If the Wonder is built during the Game you can set the Wonder to place improvements in all other "cities", (Use both Gain in every city and Gain in every city on the Continent to place Two Improvements in All "cities"), that will become activated and auto-produce the units you want when the Tech and Required Resource become available. I use this in Escape from Zombie Island 2 Complete for many different units. I prefer this way because improvements can be Bombarded away if directly built but Not when they are placed by a Wonder. The important thing is to make sure the "City" that builds the Wonder will not be captured easily or not until the end game. The "City" can be strengthened in many ways to insure it can not be captured until much later in the game.

...continuing: If you wanted a large group of Tanks to come into the Battle at a particular time, you can set up improvements to produce them when a needed resource appears . The resource can be set up to appear with a Tech and the Tech is set up with timing by use of the Minimum/Maximum Research Times in the Biq. If you have, for example, 10 "cities" called Barracks and or other names, each can have the improvement that auto-produces the Desired Tank.
Lets say the improvement auto-produces a Tank every 10 turns and remember that the improvements have been pre-placed. Now if at least 10 turns has past by the time the required Resource is gained, all 10 improvements will immediately produce the Tank the turn the Tech and required Resource are gained then continue every 10 turns after that. This provides the large number of units all at the same time.

Another way would be to pre-place the Tanks as immobile/No Attack/Defense units and have them upgrade to the working Tank with a Tech or Resource. This would also provide a large number of units all at one time. This way would have all of the Tanks in one place if desired. Remember that when a player upgrades a unit, it cannot be used until the next turn but the AI can upgrade and use the unit the same turn.

The above factors depend on if you want just one "City" or more for each Faction in the game. Either way can be set up to work but I prefer more "cities" because the AI will seriously pound one "city" if that is all there is. Strategically placing the "cities" will also help to gain Game Play shifts in Battle.

Edit: Just to let you know... When a Wonder is pre-placed, the Advisor will pop up when the game starts saying that the Wonder is being built. You can stop that by setting the Pre-placed Wonder to require a Huge number of Armies to be built.

 

[ronning]

ronning...Edit: Just to let you know... When a Wonder is pre-placed, the Advisor will pop up when the game starts saying that the Wonder is being built. You can stop that by setting the Pre-placed Wonder to require a Huge number of Armies to be built.

Thats a good tip, thanks