Questions about Dutch and their start bias

[aimlessgun]

Been wanting to play a Dutch game as a 'pirate' empire. However, I can't get into a game because I hate the start locations its giving me.

For their to be any point playing the civ, I want to have floodplain and marsh. However, the start bias seems to think I want jungle. Lots and lots of jungle, with maybe 1 or 2 marsh tiles in the general area. Oh, and not necessarily near the ocean either.

If I reroll enough can I get a non-jungle start that still has marshes? Can I get a floodplain start?

 

[Syailendra]

Been wanting to play a Dutch game as a 'pirate' empire. However, I can't get into a game because I hate the start locations its giving me.

For their to be any point playing the civ, I want to have floodplain and marsh. However, the start bias seems to think I want jungle. Lots and lots of jungle, with maybe 1 or 2 marsh tiles in the general area. Oh, and not necessarily near the ocean either.

If I reroll enough can I get a non-jungle start that still has marshes? Can I get a floodplain start?

is playing on earth maps bothers you? I've got a nile start recently.

 

[direblade99]

Been wanting to play a Dutch game as a 'pirate' empire. However, I can't get into a game because I hate the start locations its giving me.

For their to be any point playing the civ, I want to have floodplain and marsh. However, the start bias seems to think I want jungle. Lots and lots of jungle, with maybe 1 or 2 marsh tiles in the general area. Oh, and not necessarily near the ocean either.

If I reroll enough can I get a non-jungle start that still has marshes? Can I get a floodplain start?

I think you're just getting unlucky, I'm not sure, but I believe they have a grasslands start bias so there's no reason for you to constantly find yourself in jungle, and tbh if you refuse to play a civ without the perfect start that's a little weird, you can always settle your expo in a good spot for polders.

 

[aimlessgun]

Hm odd. Maybe its the communitas mapscript thats messing it up.

Not looking for the perfect start, but I do want to have more than 3 polders total in my first 3 cities! Otherwise why the hell am I playing dutch at all ^ ^

 

[Loucypher]

Hm odd. Maybe its the communitas mapscript thats messing it up.

Not looking for the perfect start, but I do want to have more than 3 polders total in my first 3 cities! Otherwise why the hell am I playing dutch at all ^ ^

Yea, Communitas isn't really a great script with the Dutch. Small Continents (or Small Continents Plus) tends to give me decent results with them.

 

[budweiser]

I've certainly gotten 6 or more marsh areas in my starting zone, but never as the Dutch. I tend to agree it doesn't work very well on standard continents.

 

[GeorgeF]

I play random map type/random Civ lately on Immortal, and my latest was a Dutch on Archipelago. My start had 8 desert hills, so I beelined and got Petra, then to Sea Beggars, one turn Sea Beggars with Logistics are sweet!

No Polders though until city #4 (went Tradition -> Exploration (2 policies) -> Rationalism (left side) -> Autocracy. City #4 had 3 fish, cows, horse, and 3 marsh on an island. Unfortunately, one of the polders I'll have to convert to an oil field.

 

[Browd]

Were there no flood plains tiles in your Petra capital? Polders can be built in both floodplains and marsh tiles.

 

[Silverfuturist]

This is a great observation, I have considering doing a post on it myself.

I have gotten so many starts with that civ on Pangea that have no flood plain or marsh for my capital, it really makes me wonder. The other day I got a tundra start with them on Pangea (we went random civs, I rolled them.) Having your capital with no special improvement/building really is a handicap, especially when every other player in the game is not denied their special abilities.

 

[Resipsa]

Play the Oceania Map if you have the DLC, its amazing for pirate warfare. I might run one up tonight

 

[Silverfuturist]

Here is a tangent, my friend Kyp is getting killed in an NQ game because he rolled Brazil with no jungle, England's longbows are killing him - he can't get cover from that long range, and he can't make Brazilwood camps in his capital. So he gets no ability in his capital, while his neighbor dominates him with his ability (longbows.) Not giving a civ the terrain they are designed for is a big problem with game balance.

 

[Resipsa]

Here is a tangent, my friend Kyp is getting killed in an NQ game because he rolled Brazil with no jungle, England's longbows are killing him - he can't get cover from that long range, and he can't make Brazilwood camps in his capital. So he gets no ability in his capital, while his neighbor dominates him with his ability (longbows.) Not giving a civ the terrain they are designed for is a big problem with game balance.

You can always expand to a jungle, honestly I'd love a coastal or grassland start with Brazil jungle starts are so slow. Your point however is true but your example is bad.

 

[Silverfuturist]

You can always expand to a jungle, honestly I'd love a coastal or grassland start with Brazil jungle starts are so slow. Your point however is true but your example is bad.

Yes you can find cities with jungle. But having no jungle in your capital is a nerf to Brazil's abilities.

 

[isau]

I have rolled dozens of maps on Small Continents Plus (from the Scrambled Continents pack) with the Dutch and gotten no marsh or flood plains nearby.

Also, I have the WORST luck with Spain. I think it's just random. (Man that Spanish UA is poorly designed though. Its basically either amazingly overpowered or complete trash and you really have no control or strategy over it. Also, hilarious that Terra maps are supposed to allow you to expand to a new continent after a sea race, but actually doing so usually makes your empire worse due to how hard BNW nerfed wide empires.)

 

[peddroelm]

HA .. Dutch just like Spain is a warmongering civ .. No polder//natural wonder in my starting area - no problem - there will be plenty of those on the map - just need to kick some people on the head and take it from them .. Get all the polders !!

 

[GeorgeF]

Were there no flood plains tiles in your Petra capital? Polders can be built in both floodplains and marsh tiles.

Only one floodplain, and it had a wheat on in. I don't think you can build Polder on wheat.

 

[LincolnofAmeric]

The Dutch in my game are located on a coast next to a desert...

 

[Browd]

Just another illustration that a start bias is not a start guarantee. But if the desert has floodplains, they can still polder up a storm.

 

[Espartafilardo]

I have played once as the Dutch. The map script was "Perfect World 3" and my start location had plenty of marshes as well as some flood plains. I had 2-3 cities pumping out major food.

PW3 has its pros and cons, though. There's a tendency for duplicates of resources to occur in the same area, whereas you'd prefer more variety. So in the game I mentioned, I had something like six or seven sugars between my first few cities. I fired up a PW3 game the other day, thinking to play Attila, and got a bit of plains in a desert loaded with incense tiles.

The related problem with PW3 can be iron and horses, if I recall. The way the terrain generates, you can end up screwed (as I did in my aforementioned Dutch game) more often than is typical of other scripts.

But again, I bet the PW3 script could get you a decent Netherlands pirate game.

Here's what I'm talking about, for those that don't know:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=399952

 

[joncnunn]

Scanning thread:

1. If playing on real world [built in one], it always disables all start biases.

2. There is no "Marsh" bias; even if there were, very few maps have a large enough patch of Marsh for a civ to spawn near a lot of it. You instead have a grassland bias, which might or might not have a nearby Marsh tile.