Questions about graphics cards

[Mise]

It's been a while since I bought anything other than ram for my computer, and I've forgotten what everything means. I'm pretty sure that my motherboard (soyo dragon kt333) only does agp x4, and not agp x8. Does that mean I can't use any of the newer graphics cards like radeon 9800 etc?

I have a Geforce 3 ti 200 right now and its getting a bit crap with the newer games, but I'm not sure which cards I should be looking at. I was thinking about either radeon 9700 pro (but I think that's x8 agp) or if not that then radeon 9550, but I'm not sure where it gets placed in the rankings. I've checked toms hardware guide, but I can only find either very old cards (like mine) or very new cards (without mine), and none which compare mine with all my options against each other.

I'm really really lost. There's just too much choice!

 

[Mikoyan]

You can use newer graphics cards, but at the loss of some performance. Not that much, though. I think the performance gap between 4x and 8x is around 3%.

 

[Mise]

Ahh thank you! At least that makes it easier to decide. I was expecting it to be half the speed or something In that case I'll probably buy a radeon 9700 pro (if I can find one...) Thanks!

Another question though: How much difference does the amount of ram on the graphics card make? Between 128mb and 256mb, is there a noticable difference if I'm just playing games on "normal" graphics levels? (I.e. not playing Doom 3 at 1600x1200 with everything turned on max.)

 

[TrailblazingScot]

Mise: I'd get the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB DDR AGP if I was you...well, it is what is in MY machine...

It cost me only around £140 when I went into the place and bought it, it may SAY it it is more on the website, but you may be pleasantly surprised.

I got it from www.aria.co.uk which is a superb shop/warehouse near me that trades online also and is also where PC Gamer got their stuff from when they did an article on building a cheap PC. An article I used to good effect (though I chose different components, being a lover of the Pentium), though I'd not go with a Phantom case again, far too fiddly!

They also sell the 9700 version you're looking for, online price says: £86.36 VAT included.

 

[Mise]

I'm not too sure about buying quite such an expensive. The difference in performance between 9700 pro and 9800 pro isn't great according to THG isn't that great (unless you turn up all the settings + AA and AF) and IMO isn't worth the 50% or so extra cash. On top of that, my computer is really old, so I probably won't make use of the higher end features of the radeon 9800 pro anyway (my athlon xp 1800 probably won't be able to handle much more).

That said, I'm still debating whether I should get a whole new motherboard + cpu some time before x-mas, which would mean that by next year I'd probably make use of the extra features.... but then there'll probably be an EVEN BETTER game than HL2 with even more features that require a higher end gfx card anyway, like radeon X800 or GF6800 or something.......... this is doing my head in!

(btw, I found cheaper 9800 pro cards on ebuyer, but that site was the first that sold 9700 pro cards! )

 

[Zakharov]

The 9800 series is the updated version of the 9700 series, so there is no point buying the older model. With your xp1800+ cpu you will probably be better off buying a 9600 pro instead though.

Those prices at ebuyer are misleading as the highlighted price is the ex VAT one. You need to check the price in smaller print. I would suggest you check Lowest on the Web before you make a decision. Their prices include VAT and delivery, and they are still cheaper than other places. The graphics cards are listed as OEM but come with all the cables and manuals. (The £170 6800NU is a bargain, btw ).

 

[Jeratain]

Technically speaking, the best bang-for-the-buck model right now is the nVidia 6600 GT. However, for your system, I would indeed get the ATi 9800 Pro 128 MB card, as the others have mentioned. Unless you plan on upgrading your system sometime in the near future and want a more future-proof card.

Don't worry about getting the 256 Mb version, as it gives almost no performance gain. And also, if you can find out 9800 Pro you are getting before you get it - check to see if you can get a card with an R360 memory core. The older cards come with an R350 core, which, while still being good, are not as new. The R360 core will allow you to flash your 9800 Pro to a 9800 XT since they use the same memory architecture - and you will see performance gains like no other.

Also, you may want to look into getting a better cooling system for your card. I would recommend an Arctic cooler Rev 3 or higher for the 9800 Pro.

 

[Zakharov]

Technically speaking, the best bang-for-the-buck model right now is the nVidia 6600 GT.

Not in the UK. The 6800NU is only £20 extra and offers a significant performance gain over the 6600GT.

The R360 core will allow you to flash your 9800 Pro to a 9800 XT....
....you may want to look into getting a better cooling system for your card.

I should point out that flashing the card will invalidate the warranty, so you may want to wait until you have had the card for at least a year before trying this. Also, the extra cooling is only necessary if you plan to overclock the card, which most people don't as it also voids the warranty.

 

[Jeratain]

Also, the extra cooling is only necessary if you plan to overclock the card, which most people don't as it also voids the warranty.

Warranty info aside, that is not true. Playing Doom 3 or HL2 on many 9800 Pro cards that have not been changed, flashed, or overclocked in any way led to massive architecturing of the graphics due to cards overheating. I experienced this very problem with my AIW 9800 Pro (R350). Literally hundreds of people were having this problem with Doom 3 and the only feasible options to fix it were to:
a) Open the side of your computer and aim a fan inside the case
b) Upgrade the cooling on the card

Driver updates, setting tweakings, game updates - none of these things helped much at all. You can probably find archived forums complaining about the problems if you do a quick Google search.

Anyhow, my main point is that if you are going to be playing the latest and greatest games, you may come across this problem with a graphics card. If you do happen to, a new fan/heatsink for your card is your best option.

The XT version does not have this problem since it has a better cooler - nor do any of the latest cards.

 

[Mise]

Thanks for all your help guys! Aside from asking the vendor, how can I tell physically which core the radeon 9800 pro I buy has? Will it say on the box or would I have to check on the chip itself? I probably won't try and flash it until I really need it anyway (which probably won't be for a year), but it would be nice.

I also know from second hand experience from my friend that the radeon 9800 pro overheats when playing doom 3. I do plan on getting a proper cooler if it becomes untolerable, but will probably stick with a desk fan and an open case for now.

EDIT: One more question! I have a 350w power supply with a cd-rw, dvd, 1 HD, some onboard stuff (sound, lan) and some usb stuff. I heard that these newer cards need a lot of power; would that be a problem with a 350w supply?

 

[Zakharov]

A 350W psu should be fine with a 9800pro. I would only be concerned about the power consumption if you were getting a 6800U or a X800XT PE.

From the customer reviews of the 9800pro on the website I linked to, it looks like they are all R360 cores. £125 inc. VAT and delivery is a very good deal for that card.

 

[Mise]

Thanks for you help guys! Will get that £125 radeon 9800 pro as soon as I can scrape the money together