Is there a rep hit for, ummm, tricking the AI into a war? For example, let's say (just for the sake of discussion, of course) that I had a peace treaty with the Sumerians, and I see one of their ships move into a city. I then block all but one exit from the city with visible boats, like battleships, destroyers, and whatnot. In that one exit, I put a submarine. If Sumeria's boat happens to stumble across my submarine and start a war, do I take a rep hit?
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- Thread starter Turner
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ettevroc28
Chieftain
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Wow, thanks for the ideas. Couple of follow up questions though...
1. I've never made a map. I've used civedit to play with a few things then saved it. But I've never designed the whole thing. Many times,the changes I make (could be simple as changing the color schemes of the civs, or toying with goody huts, etc) cause the game to crash shortly after it starts after I"ve moved a few turns. So not sure what I'm doing wrong, what things are no nos in civedit, etc. But one thing you wrote really throws me. Talking about putting myself on a 1 tile Island. I understand how that would keep anyone from messing with me until they get Marines, but how do I know which "player start" is ME? In my game, civedit maps show the words "player start" at various places on the map, but give no clue which Civ it will be.
2. What is "debug mode". I'm not familiar with that. I thought that was something computer programmers did.
Thanks for your tips!
Mike
1. I've never made a map. I've used civedit to play with a few things then saved it. But I've never designed the whole thing. Many times,the changes I make (could be simple as changing the color schemes of the civs, or toying with goody huts, etc) cause the game to crash shortly after it starts after I"ve moved a few turns. So not sure what I'm doing wrong, what things are no nos in civedit, etc. But one thing you wrote really throws me. Talking about putting myself on a 1 tile Island. I understand how that would keep anyone from messing with me until they get Marines, but how do I know which "player start" is ME? In my game, civedit maps show the words "player start" at various places on the map, but give no clue which Civ it will be.
2. What is "debug mode". I'm not familiar with that. I thought that was something computer programmers did.
Thanks for your tips!
Mike
madviking
north american scum
1. Messing with the civs, you need to update the civlopedia and the code, same with many other things. To change the starts, right-click, change player, select player 1 (something like that).
2. Debug mode is a mode where you see how the AI are playing, mostly for modding purposes
2. Debug mode is a mode where you see how the AI are playing, mostly for modding purposes
I do not know for sure as I've never done it (in fact, never thought of doing this or heard of anyone else doing it) but I would imagine that you are safe. I cannot see that this would be any different to an AI deciding to attack you whilst you had some land units in their territory. I wonder if they could recognise the danger and demand that you move your units or declare war first?
Why don't you try it and let us know if no one else is 100% sure?
ettevroc28
Chieftain
- Joined
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When I right click on a "player start" (black letters on a green background), I get three choices:
Grid
Delete Player Starting Location
Clear Tile
My Civedit is Version 1.06, and under the version it says "BIC File Version 2.05"
The game itself says "version 1.07f" in the lower left corner of the main screen.
No matter what map I open up (earth(huge).bic, earth(standard).bic), the "player start"s all look identical, just in different places on the map. I figured I would just edit one of those, name it something else, and I'd have a new map. The edit would simply be to move one "player start" to a single tile island that I would create, as was suggested. I've done that, by right clicking and removing the "player start" from one place, creating a 1 tile grassland in the middle of the ocean, and putting a "player start" on that. But if I choose Americans and the computer puts the Aztecs on that island, I won't have the scenario I want where the AI plays on and on without any intervention from me.
And I still don't understand how changing it to player 1, 2, or whatever, if I could, would help me know when one I would be when I have to choose America, Rome, Greece, etc etc.
Please remember the title of this thread. I came to this one because I know nothing other than how to start the game and play it.
I have NO idea how to "play the game in debug mode". I see no option for that. I have NO idea how to determine which "player start" is going to be the one I control.
If you, (or anyone) can take a few minutes to give me step by step instructions...please include the things that for you, go without saying (writing). Because for me, they do not.
Thanks much,
Mike
Grid
Delete Player Starting Location
Clear Tile
My Civedit is Version 1.06, and under the version it says "BIC File Version 2.05"
The game itself says "version 1.07f" in the lower left corner of the main screen.
No matter what map I open up (earth(huge).bic, earth(standard).bic), the "player start"s all look identical, just in different places on the map. I figured I would just edit one of those, name it something else, and I'd have a new map. The edit would simply be to move one "player start" to a single tile island that I would create, as was suggested. I've done that, by right clicking and removing the "player start" from one place, creating a 1 tile grassland in the middle of the ocean, and putting a "player start" on that. But if I choose Americans and the computer puts the Aztecs on that island, I won't have the scenario I want where the AI plays on and on without any intervention from me.
And I still don't understand how changing it to player 1, 2, or whatever, if I could, would help me know when one I would be when I have to choose America, Rome, Greece, etc etc.
Please remember the title of this thread. I came to this one because I know nothing other than how to start the game and play it.
I have NO idea how to "play the game in debug mode". I see no option for that. I have NO idea how to determine which "player start" is going to be the one I control.
If you, (or anyone) can take a few minutes to give me step by step instructions...please include the things that for you, go without saying (writing). Because for me, they do not.
Thanks much,
Mike
OK, ya got me. I did it in my current solo game, but I don't know if I took a rep hit. (Everyone's furious with me already). I have heard people complain about the "sub bug," in which the AI stumbles across a submarine and starts a war. I didn't want to (visibly) break my treaty, so I trapped the Sumerians into ramming my submarine. Frankly, it's not very important for purposes of this particular game whether I took a rep hit or not, but I'd like to know for future games.
ettevroc28
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 8
VXMA,
Could you please elaborate just a bit on "put yourself on a 1 tile square".
I have a player start position on a 1 tile square. But it's no different than any other player start position. Now what? Start a game, pick a Civ, use the pull downs to put an AI in all slots (or click "all random"). How do I make that 1 tile player start be me?????
Thanks,
Mike
You are player 1. The rest are just the play order the civs will take. V1.07 is th eout of the box version of civ3.
You may want to get patched to 1.29F as the editor has been through many changes.
You may want to get patched to 1.29F as the editor has been through many changes.
ettevroc28
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2007
- Messages
- 8
I finally got a game going where the civ I pick winds up on this 1 tile island. But even with it set to NOT wait at the end of turns, I stil get this "enter or spacebar for next turn". How do I disable THAT? When you tell it not to wait at the end of each turn in the preferences, that only means it won't stop and wait if you made a move that turn. This flashing message "enter or spacebar for next turn" ALWAYS happens in every game I've ever played, if you made no moves that turn. Which of course is the case here. The game started, I fortified the settler, worker and scout, and now the thing won't do anything unless i hit the spacebar each turn. So no AI sim there.
VXMA, are you speaking from experience when you say "you can come close" (to a computer vs computer sim)? Or were you thinking in theory?
Now the next question is, even if there is a way around this needing to hit the spacebar after each turn that goes without a move.......lets say this game takes off and the AI is playing all the civs against one another while my civ sits on this 1 tile. What's going to make the dark squares be revealed if I'm not exploring them, or trading world maps ? The whole game, other than my square and it's surronding squares, are going to be DARK.
I tried that patch once a couple years ago. Then nothing worked. Finally got it back to 1.07 and I'm happy with it. Just wanted to know if I could make it play itself. I just ordered the Complete Civ III because I've been wanting to play the Conquests game with the new countries (Vikings, etc) But this is frustrating.
And once again, there is no "player 1" when I'm looking at a map in civ edit. There are nothing but "player start". I had to start a new game about 17 times before I lucked into getting myself on the 1 tile start.
Mike
I mean an island that is 1 tile wide. Place the player start there and make it player 1.
Make yourself in wealth and put the pop as joker.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
In 1.07f, there is no ability to select which player starts where. I know because I played it for a considerable time without patching, when I first got Civ3 myself.
What you need to do is to download and install the 1.29f patch for Civ3. You should be able to do that by following this link.
What you need to do is to download and install the 1.29f patch for Civ3. You should be able to do that by following this link.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Lets say there are 3 AI (AI X, AI Y, and AI Z).
AI X ruins his reputation.
Will AI Y and AI Z care that AI X ruined his reputation?
AI X ruins his reputation.
Will AI Y and AI Z care that AI X ruined his reputation?
azzaman333
meh
No, but inter-AI wars become more frequent (i think)
Are you talking about attitude or reputation? Everyone being furious with you already will not affect what you posted about (reputation). You can have the whole world furious with you but still willing to trade with you. Take a rep hit though and then your trade options are severely restricted.
To test whether your rep is intact, try to see whether an AI will sell you a tech (or even just a lump sum of gold) for gpt in return. If they will, your rep is intact.
If everyone is furious with you already, it sounds like you are not too worried about an attitude hit. This is a lot more difficult to measure anyway as there are so many factors that affect this but only a few different results. You probably have no idea exactly how furious they were to begin with and so determining whether they became any more furious is pretty much impossible. As you didn't declare war I suspect that it didn't change anything but I don't really know for sure.
'Queue' input from someone much more knowledgeable...
You don't get a rep hit for tricking the AI into war directly. You might take an indirect one if you break a trade route, but by the time you have subs this shouldn't be an issue.
I'm sorry. I always forget that there are two discrete elements at work. I guess I'm talking about reputation. I was interested in whether I'll be able to trade, though it's purely an academic question for this particular game.
You pretty much nailed it on all points. I don't have any idea how furious the Sumerians were prior to the act and I'm not concerned about it for this game as I'm pretty much mopping up at this point. I dug out the save from the turn before and I may try to test this. In the save where I've got it all set up, I'm already at war with them and the Ottomans, and that's all that's left. I have notice though, that AIs tend to stay furious with me a lot, though.
In general, I never pop rush, and rarely do I pay my citizens to finish production, unless I have a whole ton of gold, and nothing to do with it (that reminds me of a different topic) I am a solid regent player, but have fairly significant difficulty with the level just above regent. Would rushing production help this, or not? Also, the reason I don't pop rush is because in my untested opinion, the loss of 1, 2, or more citizens, not to even mention the fact that it makes 'em mad, further stunting the city's growth, would statistically make the pop rushing bad. As I said, I have not tested this, and I don't want to, so I'm asking if anyone knows whether this idea is right or wrong.
Another thing, I usually find myself with a fairly large pot of gold by the time I switch to democracy in the late medieval age, thereby giving me even greater wealth. I know money is not a bad thing, but something tells me that I should be doing something with that money. I get it from constantly decreasing my science as low as it can go, but still be researched in one turn, then increasing it as soon as I start researching another.
Another question
. Does getting the absolute most out of a deal with the AI (like, down to the last piece of gold they will give you, or vice versa) mean that their attitude will not be raised as much as if you didn't ask for as much?
Another thing, I usually find myself with a fairly large pot of gold by the time I switch to democracy in the late medieval age, thereby giving me even greater wealth. I know money is not a bad thing, but something tells me that I should be doing something with that money. I get it from constantly decreasing my science as low as it can go, but still be researched in one turn, then increasing it as soon as I start researching another.
Another question
. Does getting the absolute most out of a deal with the AI (like, down to the last piece of gold they will give you, or vice versa) mean that their attitude will not be raised as much as if you didn't ask for as much?@sercer88: I'm not going to say that the following is gospel;this is just what I tend to do. Others may be more aggressive in their play style and thus have a different take on things.
Pop-rushing: I very rarely use it for the reasons you state. However it does have it's uses when used in moderation and I know that there are times when I should use it a little more. See Cracker's Opening Plays in the War Acadamy to see how an elite player views it for low shield/high food starts. FWIW I sometimes pop rush temples (for rel civs) or archers/horsemen from highly corrupt areas but more often than not with the Republic slingshot I do not have that many corrupt towns by the time I get out of Despotism.
Cash: I would strongly suggest that hoarding cash is a Bad Idea, with the possible exception that you are saving it for something in the not-too-distant future. Perhaps you could up your research so that you run a negative gpt on some turns, assuming that you have not already got four turn research. Alternatively use short-rushing to speed up production of units/improvements. Short-rushing can allow you to have slightly fewer mines, thus increasing the rate of growth in towns which in turn will increase income. Maybe a couple of those corrupt towns can rush additional settlers to set up specialist farms. Then again you can just do what many here do which is to get more units with which you can conquer new lands.
Deals: Getting every cent will not affect attitude. It may cripple them though, which may not always be in your best interests. They may agree to high gpt deals that they can afford on turn 1 due to other deals they have but when they can't afford it on turn 14, they are more likely to pay you a visit with their military units when they bankrupt. AIs have no qualms about trashing their own rep and at Monarch level they have more units to help them 'cancel' the deal before the 20 turns are up.
BTW if you are in an economically strong position, you can always improve AI attitude by giving them small gifts (say 100g) before you claw it all back plus everything else that they have when you sell them the tech you've just researched. This way you'll receive attitude boosts for both the gift and the deal.
Pop-rushing: I very rarely use it for the reasons you state. However it does have it's uses when used in moderation and I know that there are times when I should use it a little more. See Cracker's Opening Plays in the War Acadamy to see how an elite player views it for low shield/high food starts. FWIW I sometimes pop rush temples (for rel civs) or archers/horsemen from highly corrupt areas but more often than not with the Republic slingshot I do not have that many corrupt towns by the time I get out of Despotism.
Cash: I would strongly suggest that hoarding cash is a Bad Idea, with the possible exception that you are saving it for something in the not-too-distant future. Perhaps you could up your research so that you run a negative gpt on some turns, assuming that you have not already got four turn research. Alternatively use short-rushing to speed up production of units/improvements. Short-rushing can allow you to have slightly fewer mines, thus increasing the rate of growth in towns which in turn will increase income. Maybe a couple of those corrupt towns can rush additional settlers to set up specialist farms. Then again you can just do what many here do which is to get more units with which you can conquer new lands.
Deals: Getting every cent will not affect attitude. It may cripple them though, which may not always be in your best interests. They may agree to high gpt deals that they can afford on turn 1 due to other deals they have but when they can't afford it on turn 14, they are more likely to pay you a visit with their military units when they bankrupt. AIs have no qualms about trashing their own rep and at Monarch level they have more units to help them 'cancel' the deal before the 20 turns are up.
BTW if you are in an economically strong position, you can always improve AI attitude by giving them small gifts (say 100g) before you claw it all back plus everything else that they have when you sell them the tech you've just researched. This way you'll receive attitude boosts for both the gift and the deal. Deals: Getting every cent will not affect attitude. It may cripple them though, which may not always be in your best interests. They may agree to high gpt deals that they can afford on turn 1 due to other deals they have but when they can't afford it on turn 14, they are more likely to pay you a visit with their military units when they bankrupt. AIs have no qualms about trashing their own rep and at Monarch level they have more units to help them 'cancel' the deal before the 20 turns are up.
I disagree. I believe it's always in my best interest to cripple the AI economically as much as I can. And if they come a-knockin', so be it. Because they can't afford to pay me, that also means they can't afford newer/better units, or upgrade their older ones. I've had plenty of times when the AI decided to declare on me because I was taking too much of their money, and I'm fighting them with tanks/cavalry/infantry and they're trying to beat me up with musketmen and knights. So if I only get ten turns out of the deal, fine. That's ten turns I'm pumping out superior units or upgrading my older units and they're falling behind. End result, we go to war, and I get more of their cities. Then when peace is declared, I do it to them again.
Economic warfare in Civ3 is probably the most underrated aspect of the game. But I believe it's also the most useful.
Wow, thanks for the quick reply!
When I got Civ III (vanilla) Christmas 2005, I did not have internet, or the means to learn how to play from a manual. Thus, it took me a very long time to figure some things out. (I think it took me a few months to realize things like: how to build settlers, citizens working tiles..., and after that, my knowledge began to surge.) Because of this, I am sure there are many things I am not doing to the best of my civving ability.
Just a quick question on anyone's opinion: What is your favorite government (war or peace)? And, does the change of Republic from vanilla to C3C make it a better or worse government?
By the way, what does FWIW, and short-rushing mean?
Also, how do I change the word under my name (ex: chieftain to regent)
When I got Civ III (vanilla) Christmas 2005, I did not have internet, or the means to learn how to play from a manual. Thus, it took me a very long time to figure some things out. (I think it took me a few months to realize things like: how to build settlers, citizens working tiles..., and after that, my knowledge began to surge.) Because of this, I am sure there are many things I am not doing to the best of my civving ability.
Just a quick question on anyone's opinion: What is your favorite government (war or peace)? And, does the change of Republic from vanilla to C3C make it a better or worse government?
By the way, what does FWIW, and short-rushing mean?
Also, how do I change the word under my name (ex: chieftain to regent)
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