Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[Vaney168]

So I have noticed as well, usually the AI will have at least 3-5 of the same luxury within there civilization, I usually try to attack them if it’s on the border of my civilization to try and capture it, depends on what it is too like wines, silks etc. That is where colonies come in handy, I never really use them since I try to build cities next to the resources but most of the time the enemy will beat me to the source by like one turn and I have to build a city elsewhere or attack it later. With colonies I just build a road up to the luxury and build a colony of it

 

[Takhisis]

It's completely stupid that colonies can get displaced by simple cultural expansions, that shouldn't be possible.

 

[Aabraxan]

I have seen some remedies for corruption and tried building courthouses and the Forbidden Palace, but I am still not clear about how to know how to identify which cities have a lot of corruption and how much they have. ?

Also, consider downloading CivAssist II or MapStat. Either of these utilities will tell you the corruption how much corruption any given city has. (I think. I haven't used MapStat in a while).

 

[vmxa]

It's completely stupid that colonies can get displaced by simple cultural expansions, that shouldn't be possible.

Not really, colonies viewed as small towns, disappear or get annex all the time. The real thing is why would one use a worker to make a colony in the first place? Early workers are too important andlater you will get the resource in due course.

 

[Vaney168]

I just like to use colonies early on for getting luxuries or resources I know the AI will also want to have but that are in areas that I know I wont profit from, for example Incense in the middle of the desert I’m not going to build a city there, would like to have a colony build in that location

 

[Dwncsn]

1st, vmxa, thanx for replying to my earlier question about getting techs (or not) by conquering other civs.

2nd, i am confused about a rep./trading phenomenon with GPT-involving tech-buys. I am playing Japan in Demigod. Throughout the game, I have been buying tech from the other civs, in part with luxuries, resources, and GPT.

Suddenly, starting around 1270, i'm early industrial they're mid-late industrial, my trading partners don't want to do GPT- or resource-involving tech deals. But they will sell me tech outright, and I can buy resources using GPT and my own resources.

For example, India will sell me medicine for 2600 outright. They won't sell me medicine for 2400 outright plus a favorable GPT. At 2400 outright, I get "we are getting close". If add 20 GPT, I get "would never accept". If I jack up to 366 GPT (current income) & Incense plus 2400 outright, I get "doubt they will accept". But they are happy to sell me saltpeter at 105 GPT, or 58 GPT plus incense.

I have gone back through the turns over which this kicked in, and I can't figure out what is going on. No trade deals I was involved in were broken in any way. I didn't recently declare war (I razed some cities a long time ago b/c my culture is LOW.). My war/peace/trade relations with 3rd parties don't seem to be relevant. I'm not more powerful than India or the others.



Does this just happen at Demigod or in the Industrial Age? This is my first experience doing tech buys - at Emperor, I could catch up in time to dominate or win the UN vote.

Thanks

 

[Cyc]

Dwncsn, what is your total bank? How much gold do you have on hand?

 

[PaperBeetle]

It's definitely a broken rep problem. Resource deals can get broken in ways as stealthy (i.e. hard for the human to spot happening - there's no alert about it) as:
- a barb or other hostile (to either trading party) unit walks across a critical road, or sails across a critical patch of coast,
- a critical AI harbour is disbanded due to maintenance shortfall,
- a cultural expansion changes the ownership of a resource.
Also note that if you broke your rep with your home continent neighbours early in the game, you'd still have a good rep with distant civs, until such time as the nearby guys met the faraway ones and told them about you.

^ Good point Cyc. I'm assuming Dwncsn has the gpt to cover the deal?

 

[Vaney168]

I wonder if because you razed some cities if that has anything to do with it, when I play random maps I tend to just take the city rather than destroy them because I noticed other Civs hold grudges for you doing that, they can probably remember if for a long time, you also said you didn’t recently declare war so how long ago was the last one?

 

[Dwncsn]

It's definitely a broken rep problem. Resource deals can get broken in ways as stealthy (i.e. hard for the human to spot happening - there's no alert about it) as:
- a barb or other hostile (to either trading party) unit walks across a critical road, or sails across a critical patch of coast,
- a critical AI harbour is disbanded due to maintenance shortfall,
- a cultural expansion changes the ownership of a resource.
Also note that if you broke your rep with your home continent neighbours early in the game, you'd still have a good rep with distant civs, until such time as the nearby guys met the faraway ones and told them about you.

I'm inclined to agree that it would be something hard to spot and maybe quasi-"buggy" like this. But the thing is, I actually went through Details with each of the other governments in the turns before and after this started happening, wrote down what my deals were before and after this started happening, and as far as I could see there was no difference.

^ Good point Cyc. I'm assuming Dwncsn has the gpt to cover the deal?

Yeah, I had 2760 bank and 366 net income.

 

[Dwncsn]

I wonder if because you razed some cities if that has anything to do with it, when I play random maps I tend to just take the city rather than destroy them because I noticed other Civs hold grudges for you doing that, they can probably remember if for a long time, you also said you didn’t recently declare war so how long ago was the last one?

The last razing was about 870 AD (I don't think I'm missing any new cities built after a razing, not absolutely certain), and the problem kicked in at 1265. It's not with a civ whose cities I razed.

 

[Vaney168]

The last razing was about 870 AD (I don't think I'm missing any new cities built after a razing, not absolutely certain), and the problem kicked in at 1265. It's not with a civ whose cities I razed.

Yes but you have to remember that the other civs communicate with each other too so when you razed the city other civs have a more negative opinion as well, its like signing a right of passage and then sneak attacking that civ, all the others will either cancel the right of passage they have signed with you or they will refuse to sign one at all because they don’t want it to happen to them

 

[Dwncsn]

If you build Coal plants and subsequently lose Coal, do you still get the production bonus?

 

[Takhisis]

Nnnope. However, you do lose the power plant bonuses if the factory's disabled/destroyed.

 

[Vaney168]

As far as I know from just going to the game and reading the civilopedia, it does not say anything about losing power plants because resources disappear, as long as you have constructed the building it should keep producing the production bonus, the only thing that does happen when coal is lost is that no more power plants can be built in any other cities or railroads by workers, Ironclads etc

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I'm inclined to agree that it would be something hard to spot and maybe quasi-"buggy" like this. But the thing is, I actually went through Details with each of the other governments in the turns before and after this started happening, wrote down what my deals were before and after this started happening, and as far as I could see there was no difference.



Yeah, I had 2760 bank and 366 net income.

Was one of the civs that you traded with destroyed? That is another one of those "stealthy" ways your reputation can get trashed. Never buy techs for gpt from a doomed civ.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

I wonder if because you razed some cities if that has anything to do with it, when I play random maps I tend to just take the city rather than destroy them because I noticed other Civs hold grudges for you doing that, they can probably remember if for a long time, you also said you didn’t recently declare war so how long ago was the last one?

Razing cities has definitely nothing to do with breaking your reputation.

 

[Dwncsn]

Was one of the civs that you traded with destroyed? That is another one of those "stealthy" ways your reputation can get trashed. Never buy techs for gpt from a doomed civ.

ARRRGGHH. I did this, thinking "Clever", then thought maybe it was trashing my rep. so went back and didn't do it, and still took the Rep. hit. I wonder if I did it earlier and have forgotten about it. I don't think so.

 

[Dwncsn]

OK, maybe I figured it out.

At 1140, I have MPPs with India & Persia, and trade with Hittites.
Hittites go bonkers (they're weak) and attack India & Persia. So I have to declare war, and this breaks the trade deal. But my trading partners don't mind. Probably because they're all already at war with Hittites.

Then, in 1250s/1260s, India declares peace with Hittites, & won't do GPT/resources for Tech anymore. Subsequently, Babylon declares peace with H., and then won't do GPT with me anymore. Then Persia kills H., and won't do GPT with me anymore.

So - if you break a trade deal with x by declaring war on x, AND if y is at war with x, y will trust you so long as you and y are both at war with x. But once y is no longer at war with x, y stops trusting you. And maybe if you get out of war with x while y is still at war with x, y stops trusting you (certainly they will like you less).

One possible counter-example is that H. is willing to trade industrialization for a reasonable GPT amount to get out of war with me, but maybe that's because they're about to get destroyed by Persia and want to get out of war at any cost.

Is that about right?

 

[Dwncsn]

Yes but you have to remember that the other civs communicate with each other too so when you razed the city other civs have a more negative opinion as well, its like signing a right of passage and then sneak attacking that civ, all the others will either cancel the right of passage they have signed with you or they will refuse to sign one at all because they don’t want it to happen to them

Yes, but they were all already communicating by that razing, and it had no trading effects at that time. More broadly, I could see that razing would damage your reputation, but it wouldn't break it. I.e., other civs like you less, but are still willing to engage in GPT/RoP/MPP/MA.