Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

[walletta]

I meant succession as in one after another.

The easiest way is, when you are at war with an AI, bribe other AIs to join you.

Pay attention to AIs that start making mutual protection pacts. Drawing them into one war could make a war to last a lifetime. If A and B have a protection pact, and go to war with C and D with a protection pact- when A or B make peace with C or D individually, they can get immediately drawn back to war by being called on to honor the still-existing mutual protection pact. Those can get into some nasty cycles of war.

When not at war, you can use trade embargoes to get AIs mad at each other. (The worse their attitudes get toward each other, the more likely they are to declare war with each other.) Of course, a trade embargo will make the embargoed AI mad at you as well, so you want isolate one at a time.

Thanks for this tip. I have come to the conclusion that playing against 15 Civs is a bit of PITA as it over-complicates a part of the game that doesn't appeal so much, not that I couldn't do with learning a good deal more about it. Anyway, hopefully I have successfully posted the .sav and others can have a quick look and offer instructive suggestions.

Do people have preferred map sizes?

 

[Bartleby]

Let me pop in a question here if I can:

New game, huge map, 16 Civs, I take Lincoln. Unpatched game of Vanilla. I start on a continent with Aztecs to the far east, Iroquois yapping at my feet below me, England settled below them. I manage to surround the Iroquois, who have nowhere to expand. They have 4 cities total and are behind ~40pts in score. Fine. Aztecs are far to the east, and doing fairly well. Not a threat yet. England however, has two cities and is not expanding. They have a huge amount of land they should have taken by now. They're still getting techs faster than I am, have a decent amount of gold, but are seemingly stuck. I create an embassy with them and find they have no units defending their cities.

Here I was, excited at besting the Iroquois and managing to smother them into submission, and now all the challenge is gone. What gives?

Welcome to CFC!

Sounds like you need to play a higher difficulty level. On the lower levels the AI has build and growth penalties to slow them down. On Regent level they can build at the same rate you do.

I'd strongly recommend patching patching your game though, and also to get conquests if you can.

 

[Os10578]

Welcome to CFC!

Sounds like you need to play a higher difficulty level. On the lower levels the AI has build and growth penalties to slow them down. On Regent level they can build at the same rate you do.

I'd strongly recommend patching patching your game though, and also to get conquests if you can.

When my loans come in, I'll probably get conquests, as well as pick up 5. For now we're stuck with the $10 copy of vanilla I found on amazon.

This has to be a bug or something similar, no? I can't remember the year, but I had at least 12-15 cities, and the Aztecs had around the same. And why would they have NO units guarding their city?

Thanks for the reply. Good to see people still playing this game.

 

[EMan]

If you buy Civ 3 Complete from amazon (see below) for $5.29, you'll not only get a fully patched version of vanilla, but you will also get the "final" version of Conquests!

http://www.amazon.com/Sid-Meiers-Ci...&qid=1354490683&sr=8-1&keywords=civ3+complete

P.s. Yes, there are bugs in the original version of vanilla.

 

[walletta]

Well, I played on from the position in the .sav I posted and managed to do pretty well, pulling alongside the all-powerful Incas in technology, building two GWs (not very useful ones) and securing an extra supply of saltpetre to trade but found that once I mastered Refinery the only Civ with any Oil was - Inca. So, not being able to build anything beyond Infantry and Artillery (no aircraft or modern naval units) I chucked my hand in.

Now I see a big downside to archipelago games. You can play a blinder but just get stuck for lack of access to something essential.

 

[Cyc]

I Dld that save, and you started with a really tough location with no benefits. Congrats on taking it as far as you did.

The first thing I did was make peace with the Mayans (they paid 9 of their 10 gold) and the Incas (they paid 115 gold). Then I stopped making your MoW, mostly switched to Marketplaces or Banks. You needed Markets for happiness in some places and you were paying way too much for military support.

I wanted to change your tech also. I don't think switching to Democracy would have done you any good, as your nation was small, with small cities and financially burdened with no extra luxs. I never did find an extra lux with the Hittites. I thought that's who you were going to attack for the lux, but I guess I was wrong.

But again, kudoos for pressing on. I would have dumped the game long before. Well, actually I wouldn't have started a Navy game. But you've done well.

 

[walletta]

I Dld that save, and you started with a really tough location with no benefits. Congrats on taking it as far as you did.

The first thing I did was make peace with the Mayans (they paid 9 of their 10 gold) and the Incas (they paid 115 gold). Then I stopped making your MoW, mostly switched to Marketplaces or Banks. You needed Markets for happiness in some places and you were paying way too much for military support.

I wanted to change your tech also. I don't think switching to Democracy would have done you any good, as your nation was small, with small cities and financially burdened with no extra luxs. I never did find an extra lux with the Hittites. I thought that's who you were going to attack for the lux, but I guess I was wrong.

But again,kudoos for pressing on. I would have dumped the game long before. Well, actually I wouldn't have started a Navy game. But you've done well.

Thanks! That's all very useful to know. In the version before the last one I seized a city with Incense from America but it proved imposible to hold, so I started again from 1725, making peace with Inca and Maya, later seizing a city with slatpeter from the latter after they picked a fight with me, one which I could keep and being friendly with everyone as much as possible. I built Marketplaces and Banks like you said and researched weird stuff (e.g. Medicine and Sanitation) but without oil it was only a question of time (probably was hopeless anyway) before the Inca descended on me in overwhelming force.

Two questions:

1 is there an optmal empire size at which one should switch to democracy - when playing the English?
2 how was I paying too much to support my army? Is that avoidable, or manageable, except by having a smaller one?

Thanks for looking at it. Much appreciated. I might try a standard size continental game next. Still love that Man 'o War!

 

[Cyc]

Two questions:

1 is there an optmal empire size at which one should switch to democracy - when playing the English?
2 how was I paying too much to support my army? Is that avoidable, or manageable, except by having a smaller one?

1. No, not really. But I like to have developed my nation to cities above size 12 and have at least 4 luxs. Normally, I wouldn't switch to Democracy at all, unless I felt REALLY secure about my position in the world. Especially when not playing as a religious trait. Anarchy for 6 turns to get back to a simpler government because someone declared war on you just because you switched to Democracy (and they will) is a major pain. Being religious lessens this pain. The only real gain I get from Democracy is a sense of accomplishment, the 50% (over a Republic) Worker increase, and some extra Commerce. This helps when building rails and saving money for upgrades while keeping a tech advantage. But I play on Huge Panagaeas with very large cities.

2. You're paying 150 gold per turn (gpt) for your military. If you check with your Military Advisor, he'll tell you how many units you're allowed, and how many you actually have. Plus he'll tell you how much extra you're paying for the overage. This amount shows up on the Domestic Advisor's screen also. If you notice in the pic below, if you didn't have the extra 150 gpt to pay each turn, you could finish Democracy in three turns instead of 6 turns. By keeping your unit levels a lot closer to your allowance level, you pay less and can use the gold for other things. With all the MoW, you rule the sea, but ruling the sea gets you Whales and Fish. That's why I stopped making them. I considered disbanding some to speed up the Markets.

EDIT: Now that I look at the pick again, y0u get Democracy in 4. You could get Democracy in 3, but you would of had to pay like 25 gpt. But 4 turns is still a good improvement.

 

[walletta]

Thanks Cyc. I don't really get the unit costs think as I was in Republic and you don't get any free units there, or am I mistaken about that. The reason I was heading for democracy is I read here that Republic>Democracy was the way to go for the English.

Jeez! I have been playing this game a long time but I know nothing.

PS I did manage to get 4-5 lux by trading and I only had pointless war declarations from Civs that couldn't really do anything.

 

[MysteryX]

Thanks Cyc. I don't really get the unit costs think as I was in Republic and you don't get any free units there, or am I mistaken about that. The reason I was heading for democracy is I read here that Republic>Democracy was the way to go for the English.

Jeez! I have been playing this game a long time but I know nothing.

PS I did manage to get 4-5 lux by trading and I only had pointless war declarations from Civs that couldn't really do anything.

The question is why going to Democracy is the way to go for the English.

The corruption reduction from Democracy is a significant benefit to your economy.

However, you are going to lose some turns of production and research to anarchy in the process, giving your opponents a chance to catch up.

War weariness is also more of a problem in Democracy. You will have trouble waging wars for long, whether you are pursuing them or defending them. It can get really nasty if AI opponents start declaring war on you one after another, such that as soon as you end one war another is declared. Even if you can handle your opponents militarily, you can't stop the war weariness and can get thrown into unavoidable revolution.

If you think you have a lot of turns left to play after your switch to Democracy, and it's going to be a lot of peaceful turns, then Democracy may serve you better in the long term. On the other hand, if you think you're getting close to a victory condition, or you're itching to use that military technology you have researched, or you just have a lot of aggressive opponents left, you may be much better off sticking with Republic.

 

[walletta]

The question is why going to Democracy is the way to go for the English.

The corruption reduction from Democracy is a significant benefit to your economy.

However, you are going to lose some turns of production and research to anarchy in the process, giving your opponents a chance to catch up.

War weariness is also more of a problem in Democracy. You will have trouble waging wars for long, whether you are pursuing them or defending them. It can get really nasty if AI opponents start declaring war on you one after another, such that as soon as you end one war another is declared. Even if you can handle your opponents militarily, you can't stop the war weariness and can get thrown into unavoidable revolution.

If you think you have a lot of turns left to play after your switch to Democracy, and it's going to be a lot of peaceful turns, then Democracy may serve you better in the long term. On the other hand, if you think you're getting close to a victory condition, or you're itching to use that military technology you have researched, or you just have a lot of aggressive opponents left, you may be much better off sticking with Republic.

Interesting, thanks. It's not as simple as I thought. Sounds like maybe you can only do it if you already have a position of strength. This is why I posted the game - to understand these things better. Thanks for the comments folks.

[I'm ashamed to admit I pressed the revolution button during my Golden Age ...]

Q. what do players hope to get out of a GA? Just a useful production and monetary boost or should one try to use it to build a GW?

 

[MysteryX]

Interesting, thanks. It's not as simple as I thought. Sounds like maybe you can only do it if you already have a position of strength. This is why I posted the game - to understand these things better. Thanks for the comments folks.

[I'm ashamed to admit I pressed the revolution button during my Golden Age ...]

Q. what do players hope to get out of a GA? Just a useful production and monetary boost or should one try to use it to build a GW?

If you are already in a position of strength, I would think you would be pressing your advantage against the other civilizations rather than taking time out to go to Democracy. Other civilizations can make a comeback if you leave them hanging around. They will start trading tech around to make up a tech disadvantage. A couple of the bigger ones will swallow up smaller ones to add to their production. My advice is, the best time to kick a man is when he is down.

Now, if you are having trouble keeping up with some of the other civilizations (such that you are losing ground each turn anyway), that could potentially be a time to take a time out, switch to Democracy, and rely on that corruption decrease to help you catch up.

If you play a civilization with the Religious trait (Egypt remains one of my favorites), you only get one turn of anarchy by switching governments. In that case, it makes a lot more sense to make the switch to Democracy. You still have the war weariness to worry about. Though if worse comes to worse and the people overthrow your government, you only have one turn of anarchy before you can choose another more war-friendly government (back to Republic, or to try Communism if you are familiar with it).

The Golden Age is a great production boost. If you are on a development strategy, it is a great time to develop those settlements lagging behind in improvements. If you have a military strategy, you can start pumping out units and batter your neighbors. The extra money is great to pump into Research and either catch up with or pull away from your opponents.

 

[walletta]

Interesting MysteryX. I did not know specific Civs had particular nos. of turns of anarchy between regimes.

I just started another Emperor level, playing the English, on a standard map and got Ivory and Iron in my capital city radius. I have built The Statue of Zeus (I already have an irresistible army of Ancient Cavalry) and am now polishing off the Romans, Americans and Inca (revenge) on my continent. Too easy this time.

Q. do people construct mixed armies or homogenous ones? I tend to go for the latter but what's best?
Q what is the best Civ to play at high levels and why?

 

[Abegweit]

Interesting MysteryX. I did not know specific Civs had particular nos. of turns of anarchy between regimes.

That's specific to the Religious trait.

Q. do people construct mixed armies or homogenous ones? I tend to go for the latter but what's best?

Homogeneous is generally better but what's most important is to have the same speed for all the units in the army.

Q what is the best Civ to play at high levels and why?

Iroquois. Best traits and best UU. What more do you want to know?

 

[walletta]

That's specific to the Religious trait.

Homogeneous is generally better but what's most important is to have the same speed for all the units in the army.
Iroquois. Best traits and best UU. What more do you want to know?

Why best traits?

 

[EMan]

Q what is the best Civ to play at high levels and why?

For Histographic Victories (Viz. Getting highest score possible), use the Mayan civ.
Their workers work faster (Industrious) and their city centers generate 3 food (Agricultural).

For other victory conditions/difficulty levels/map sizes, check out The Tables here:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/

 

[Abegweit]

Why best traits?

The best trait, by far, is Agri. The food is simply huge. In fact, it is so big that this trait is better than any two others, perhaps better than all others combined. The next two traits are Comm and Ind. Ind speeds up your workers and Comm lets you have more cities that aren't corrupt. While it's close, IMO, having a larger productive empire is better than faster workers.

The other traits are significantly poorer, although Seafaring is good on the right map.

 

[walletta]

Thanks for those tips. Evidently, I have been playing a different game.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Which traits are best depends a lot on who you ask and what kind of game you play. But Agri is pretty much the strongest trait all in all.

 

[walletta]

For Histographic Victories (Viz. Getting highest score possible), use the Mayan civ.
Their workers work faster (Industrious) and their city centers generate 3 food (Agricultural).

For other victory conditions/difficulty levels/map sizes, check out The Tables here:

http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ3/

Gee, I wish you hadn't shown me that! Very impressive scores. Wow.