Quick G.Spy Question

[Desk Jockey]

I just upgraded to BtS and am playing my first game so I'm really unfamiliar with spies. I built the G.Wall and got a Great Spy, but wasn't sure if infiltrating him into an enemy civ (which I ended up doing) was a better move than settling in my capital (I eventually conquered the civ I infiltrated him into and wasn't quite sure about what the spy was really doing there for me anyhow).

I ended up eventually with a second G.Spy and settled him in my capital, but was wondering if I shouldn't have settled the first and used the second to build Scotland Yard instead?

Long story short, is infiltrating worth it?

Thanks!

 

[Iranon]

A ton of Espionage points aren't universally useful, particularly not if the civilisation you infiltrate turns out to be not worth the effort. In your case, he completely went to waste.

Generally, settle them. A few early Great Spies give a nice science boost and all the espionage points you need for most of the game (for the passive benefits of espionage) unless you want to emphasise that aspect of the game.

There are some exceptions... for example, if you locate Mansa Musa the Mad Techer on a higher level, an infiltration mission will allow you to benefit from his advancements for a long time (stealing is cheaper than researching, and his tendency to spread techs around might make you reluctant to trade more than you have to).

 

[Desk Jockey]

Do I have to have a G.Spy infiltrated to steal tecs? Im my case I infiltrated Russia real early and then kept sending in normal spies and I was able to steal quite a few techs so I'm not sure at this point if I need an infiltrated G.Spy to steal tech or if the normal spies can do it without that.

Thanks!

 

[Supr49er]

Your GS gives you a lump of espionage points. Then you can use regular spies to launch missions against them. Stealing technology can be expensive, so a GS can pay off if you find a technology leader like Mansa Musa.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Ah, I understand now, thanks again!

 

[Snapman]

It depends on how early on in the game you get the Great Spy.

If he is generated from the Great Wall early on in the game, then consider using him on an infiltration mission against one of your opponents who is a bit of a tech fiend. You can use the points to steal their techs. The points can also be used to support city revolts, which can help during wartime.

I like the early game Great Spy, and for me is the best benefit of building the Great Wall.

 

[King of Town]

scotland yard is one of the best investments if you are going for espionage. You get 100% espionage points, and you can just focus the points however you want to.

 

[jackdog]

I almost always infiltrate unless I get one quite late on and build the great wall with the specific purpose of getting an early one. The ability to steal several techs and then take a few cities via city revolt before you get cats is IMO unparralelled. That early lead defines the rest of the game. The only problem is making sure you dont infiltrate someone you are going to kill very early on and waste the points.

I would still infiltrate midgame as still the ability to incite revolt and then use your cats, cannons to weaken those strong defenders so that you lose almost no other troops, rather than have turns of knocking off defenses while they reinforce and/or whip draft more defense, is very powerfull IMO.

 

[PibbZ]

I would still infiltrate midgame as still the ability to incite revolt and then use your cats, cannons to weaken those strong defenders so that you lose almost no other troops, rather than have turns of knocking off defenses while they reinforce and/or whip draft more defense, is very powerfull IMO.

Imo, that feature is too powerful, and i never use it because it feels like cheating.

The massacre of 100+ pikemen / macemen that are attacking my Drill IV machinegun fortified in a fort on a forested hill however, feels good!

 

[Nay]

The biggest problem is, the espionage points from the GS do not scale.
The first GS will give the same amount of ESP as the one you get 2000AD.

Difference is, the first one gives enough points to steal 3-5 techs (up to machinery, then it pretty much stales due to beaker cost), the latter contributes 1/8th of the cost from any industrial age-tech.

If they scaled like all other GPs, it would makea viable tactic to farm GSs, but as of now, the second one gets sacrificed to a golden age.

 

[coffeeholic]

soory for the nOOb question: how do you steal techs with spies? I don't recall that being an option when you take a regular spy onto a foreign city?? is this option only available with great spies?

Thanks

AjK

 

[Supr49er]

soory for the nOOb question: how do you steal techs with spies? I don't recall that being an option when you take a regular spy onto a foreign city?? is this option only available with great spies?

Thanks

AjK

Click on the spy icon located at the upper right of screen (or hit Ctrl+E) to get to the Espionage Screen. Under the missions section you will see Steal Technology. If you have enough points (and they have a technology you don't) you can execute the mission.

 

[coffeeholic]

Thanks for the tip. I have never even looked at that screen

 

[Lightwave]

I almost always infiltrate unless I get one quite late on and build the great wall with the specific purpose of getting an early one. The ability to steal several techs and then take a few cities via city revolt before you get cats is IMO unparralelled. That early lead defines the rest of the game. The only problem is making sure you dont infiltrate someone you are going to kill very early on and waste the points.

I would still infiltrate midgame as still the ability to incite revolt and then use your cats, cannons to weaken those strong defenders so that you lose almost no other troops, rather than have turns of knocking off defenses while they reinforce and/or whip draft more defense, is very powerfull IMO.

I agree. I always infiltrate unless I get one late game (not yet happened). I bristle at having to trade at a 20-30% loss even with supposedly friendly civs, and it makes me feel better to just steal the techs which you can steal quite a few if done early enough.

At one time, I thought it was getting me ahead of the opposing civs, but I realized that they are trading like mad, so I think it just cuts me out of the trade loop... and I feel better about it too. Late game when I am producing a significant number of espionage points, it might make sense to settle, but I have yet to settle one.

In my current game, I happened to get 3 great spies from the Great Wall which I did not like, and I would have settled one, but I had no tech brokering turned on. And evidently the Byzantines, who were the farthest from me on my continent, were trading some important techs to my two closer rivals (one friendly, one enemy). So I needed to steal from all three eventually, and the 3rd great spy allowed me to steal without having to wait to build up points on a third civ. So, the third great spy actually turned out handy in that game.

 

[jesusin]

The biggest problem is, the espionage points from the GS do not scale.
The first GS will give the same amount of ESP as the one you get 2000AD.

Difference is, the first one gives enough points to steal 3-5 techs (up to machinery, then it pretty much stales due to beaker cost), the latter contributes 1/8th of the cost from any industrial age-tech.

If they scaled like all other GPs, it would makea viable tactic to farm GSs, but as of now, the second one gets sacrificed to a golden age.

AFAIK, no GPs scale.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Click on the spy icon located at the upper right of screen (or hit Ctrl+E) to get to the Espionage Screen. Under the missions section you will see Steal Technology. If you have enough points (and they have a technology you don't) you can execute the mission.

Is it just me, or do enemy civs always require about 80-million espionage points you'll never see in a lifetime to steal a tech?

I've given-up hope of ever stealing a tech ever in my lifetime with Civ4... seems to me the formula for stealing techs is too pricey and/or not worth what it would take to get that many espionage points.

Or am I missing something obvious?

 

[Supr49er]

Is it just me, or do enemy civs always require about 80-million espionage points you'll never see in a lifetime to steal a tech?

I've given-up hope of ever stealing a tech ever in my lifetime with Civ4... seems to me the formula for stealing techs is too pricey and/or not worth what it would take to get that many espionage points.

Or am I missing something obvious?

You're right, unless you get a very early GS. Then you can steal several techs.

 

[Lightwave]

Is it just me, or do enemy civs always require about 80-million espionage points you'll never see in a lifetime to steal a tech?

I've given-up hope of ever stealing a tech ever in my lifetime with Civ4... seems to me the formula for stealing techs is too pricey and/or not worth what it would take to get that many espionage points.

Or am I missing something obvious?

I do it all the time in early-mid game... to the point, I have begun thinking that it may be too easy. I usually infiltrate with a great spy first (I usually prioritize the Great Wall), but I have also been successful in my last game just focusing all espionage on 1 target civ and boosting espionage spending 10 or 20% for a little while. At first, I did not like detracting from gold or science, but I started looking at it as a secondary research track. I'm actually getting useful techs out of the spending, so it is not a waste... kind of like being able to "research" two techs at the same time.

I almost always wait for the 50% 'stationary spy' discount also.

Later game tech do indeed get too expensive to be stolen easily.

 

[Lightwave]

You're right, unless you get a very early GS. Then you can steal several techs.

I wouldn't say it has to be an very early great spy either. Of course that is better, but in my current game, I've lost track of the technologies that I've stolen. Some of them include (I believe) Banking, Gunpowder, and Paper which I consider the mid-game.

Now, on this game I did receive 3 great spies, but I've also stolen at least one other mid-game tech (Gunpowder I think) via good old-fashioned espionage spending when my infiltration points ran out with minimal impact on my ongoing research. I've also got a boat with 3 spies on its way to Gilgamesh to try to steal Chemistry since he won't share. When I can get back to the game the Lord willing, I'm going to boost espionage spending a little and focus everything on Gilgamesh nicely building up points as I wait for the travel time and the stationary spy bonus.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I hear a lot about getting a Great Spy... I've seen one GS in many, many games... I would think stealing techs doesn't require the need for one or more great spies... one would think you should be able to steal a tech the good old fashioned way... but I've never been able to get enough points to even make one attempt. I can do pretty much anything else involving espionage, but I never have enough to steal techs... and if it requires the use of a GS as being the only way, I guess I'm hosed then.