Quick & Online Game Speed

[fubi]

So I was getting impatient with the average game length and started playing on the quicker speed settings, but I found the game to be way harder. With Science/Culture/Production progressing much quicker for everybody, there's less time to do things with your units on the map. Some problems I ran into:

- Taking on an AI with early Archers doesn't work nearly as well, sieging cities with them is harder, because the AI will often have new units every single turn.
- AIs often advance in tech in the middle of war, because your unit took to long just to get to him.
- Builder take longer to move around, delaying improvements
- Less time to complete Eurekas
- Less time to complete City-State Quests
- Lining up things like Research & Production can be done more precise on slower speed


Overall I really like the shorter game times though, it feels every turn is more meaningful then on standard speed, which tends to have a lot of "filler" turns. What has been your experience? Any particular tips and strategies for playing on Immortal/Diety on Quick/Online speed?

 

[MyOtherName]

I've been avoiding playing with game speed, since I was under the impression that costs were currently not correctly adjusted. Am I wrong?

 

[Dargov]

There is a huge balance difference which can help you catch up with the AI on online speed:

Chopping is worth more while everything costs less.

This has a huge impact on early play as 1 chop is enough to produce a new worker and you can go from there, and prioritising the techs needed to remove Rainforest and Marsh. This is without taking advantage of the unlimited distance "exploit" which hopefully will be patched out at some point. (another topic, What should the maximum distance from cities that allows chopping?)

On standard speed early chops are definitely not worth it initially as it takes nearly all three chops to replace the cogs spent on the worker.

 

[viper_1986_1986]

I never really like anything faster than the normal speed.
It makes the defender's have a huge advantage, so going for culture/sci victory was super easy. Even more so with human over AI which is what i normally do.

I like the normal or epic speeds best It makes you use your crappy units for long periods of time, and timing when to start a war is huge. No longer will you be outclasses, but you can actually time it so you outclass them!

 

[JustMormegil]

- Builder take longer to move around, delaying improvements

This. The main problem of Online speed is that it doesn't scale unit speed at all. Paired with Civ6 changes to movement cost, it doesn't leave us time to move troops towards frontline

Can we get at least +1 speed to all land units at online speed at flat terrain and on roads (0.66 movement cost instead of 1)? This shouldn't break movement rules, but will speed up units enough.

 

[DrCron]

Every single CIV game until now has been harder on Quick speed, and easier on Epic and Marathon*. I didn't try other than Standard on 6, but I was expecting the situation to be the same.

When everything takes longer, maximizing the unit movement is much more valuable. The AI can get bonuses to everything, but it never moves its units in a more efficient way. That's why CIV will always be easier on slower speeds and harder on fast speeds.

*Exception: cultural victory on Civ IV, but just because the amount of cultural points needed was never scaled properly.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Quick speed on Civ IV is very challenging, but Civ IV is pretty well balanced game.

I'd expect a similar challenge winning on Civ VI via Online or Quick speeds. The advantage on Civ VI is the AI still can't handle 1UPT tactics any where near as well as a human. That, plus the fact that military units of the same area can't one shot kill each other, unless already severely damaged.

I'd suggest building more Slingers to upgrade to Archers. Or build several Warriors while beelining Iron Working with Settler and Builder ready to improve and upgrade them all to Swordsman. Or better yet, do both; that should work.

Otherwise try a large number of Heavy Chariots and Slingers -> Archers. Rush as many cities as possible with these. Beeline to Stirrups and upgrade all the Heavy Chariots to Knights (no strategic resources are needed). The Knights will be your major rushing unit. Beeline the tech that enables Crossbowmen and upgrade Archers to support Knights.

With Online and Quick speeds, timing of rushes will be critical. May need to send up to 50% more units to compensate for the fast rate of technology and how that helps the defender.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

The best suggestion for rushing at Online and Quick speeds though is beeline Reformed Church, adopt Theocracy and buy any military land unit in any city (Holy Site not needed) with Faith.

One can even send 2-3 Settlers or more close to the enemy cities and rush buy via faith the most current military land units every turn for 2-3 or more turns for an instant carpet of doom.

 

[trojan13]

There is a huge balance difference which can help you catch up with the AI on online speed:

Chopping is worth more while everything costs less.

This has a huge impact on early play as 1 chop is enough to produce a new worker and you can go from there, and prioritising the techs needed to remove Rainforest and Marsh. This is without taking advantage of the unlimited distance "exploit" which hopefully will be patched out at some point. (another topic, What should the maximum distance from cities that allows chopping?)

On standard speed early chops are definitely not worth it initially as it takes nearly all three chops to replace the cogs spent on the worker.

I totally agree. This is one of the key point in faster speed. This chopping balance is critical in online speed. 1 chop yield - 20-25 when first builder comes out - is about the same as builder cost, 25.
On top of that, great people points and project is another key points. First great people cost 30 points and 1 project gives 18-20 points at half production cost. So it's basically 1/4 production cost of that in standard speed.

I've played many online speed games(mostly MP) after fall patch. I am more and more using chops and great people than SP in standard speed.

 

[notque]

Several things aren't scaled properly. In NQMod, I work on the scaling to try and get it right. We've cut chopping/harvesting in half, and made other changes. You can download it, and look at the qrules.sql file to look at what we are doing.

 

[notque]

On top of that, great people points and project is another key points. First great people cost 30 points and 1 project gives 18-20 points at half production cost. So it's basically 1/4 production cost of that in standard speed..

This is one I haven't scaled, but it certainly needs to be. I'm not getting the 1/4th production cost thing though. What would you suggest to make it scale properly? Increase GP cost? Increase Project cost?

Edit: Went ahead and doubled project costs since that's causing issues anyway with GGs.

 

[trojan13]

This is one I haven't scaled, but it certainly needs to be. I'm not getting the 1/4th production cost thing though. What would you suggest to make it scale properly? Increase GP cost? Increase Project cost?

Edit: Went ahead and doubled project costs since that's causing issues anyway with GGs.

If you count production for specific great people, it's one forth only if you get it by project because half gpp required and half cost for project (which yield same gpp). But if you consider general gpp generation by districts, buildings, cards, it's fine.

I don't think standard balance is perfect nor online speed balance is at this early stage of civ6. I usually play online speed in MP and its balance is fun enough in competitive MP, because you really need to commit project to grab great people you want. If I think optimistic at highest points atm and build other things, I might lost the gp I wanted due to his/her projects. Vice versa. It is not standard balance or online balance is better, it's different imho.