Quick question re: new patch

[Parmenion]

Sorry if this has been said before - I glanced through the threads and couldn't see anything that would answer my question, but has anyone noticed that Diplomacy seems not to work the same. What I mean is that I will be doing a deal with another civ and the Advisor says that 'I doubt whether they will accept this', so I add more to my side of the deal and he says, 'They would never accept this deal'.....? I fiddled with my offer, even going so far as to only add 1 gold to the deal and the Advisor still came up with the same response. Why would they almost accept and then totally refuse when I offer more, whether the increased offer is a little or a lot?

Also, trading techs, maps and resources doesn't seem to have changed either. The Romans who are without iron and desperate to get their legionaries built wouldn't trade their 1 spice for my 1 dyes, 1 iron, world map and 10 gold per turn.....!

On the positive side though, I have noticed that the other civs (in another game) have all decided to become 'Annoyed' with me for my treatment of the English, Zulus and Babylonians - all of whom I have attacked without provocation. Ths didn't seem to happen in the older patches, and I'm grateful for the added realism.

 

[DaSilva]

This happened in previous patches as well. When the AI sometimes said 'add a little more' and you added a luxury or resource and your advisor says that they will be insulted with this deal.

So it aint just this patch.

 

[Parmenion]

Cheers for the reply, it was just that I was informed (by a man in the pub) that the new patch was supposed to make bargaining with other civs more realistic. ie: make the civ a little reasonable rather than a greedy fool. If anything it's gone worse.

I've now seen several other posts regarding the Advisors response going from 'Maybe' to 'No way, we're insulted' so there are other people out there experiencing the same problem. Can this be altered at all in the editor?

 

[Selous]

i guess your sorce of info (the man in the pub ... love it) was talking about the start game ..... and the individual civs tring to get ahead themselves .... rather than the AI trying to beat u the human player

i know that im no programmer ... but surely it is easy for the AI to see that more is better??

 

[Kilroy]

The AI will not accept a deal it knows it cannot keep. In your example with the Romans, there's no way they were making 10 gold per turn that early in the game. So, delete that requirement (and perhaps trade it for something else), and you'll probably get a deal.

Also, you can never use cities as a bargaining tool. Yes this is ********, but the alternative leads to a very VERY cheap exploit (which should have been fixed via proper reputation handling but, I digress). Firaxis removed the exploit using the simplest and worst thought out method possible.

 

[Parmenion]

Kilroy, what is the cheap exploit (re: city bargaining) that you refer to? I am an incredilbly naieve and trusting leader of my people and would welcome any assistance to 'toughen up' my ethical limitations.

 

[konigstiger]

When you have a doomed city (about to fall), you can offer it to another civ, before any patches, civs will offer a lot of cash for a city. Firaxis removed it by making it impossible to trade cities.

 

[Parmenion]

But I have managed to bargain for cities on the new patch. Admittedly it's been rarely and usually when I want to make peace with a civ I am destroying in a war - I demand one of their smallest cities as tribute and usually get it.
However you are absolutely right when you say that the other civs will not accept one of your cities as part of any deal.

 

[philippe]

yes and thats sad..always gave a small town for lotsa techs and then it defect back thx to my high culture

 

[konigstiger]

Yeah philippe said the essential exploit, see to it if it's still possible with the new patches

 

[Kilroy]

Originally posted by Parmenion
But I have managed to bargain for cities on the new patch. Admittedly it's been rarely and usually when I want to make peace with a civ I am destroying in a war - I demand one of their smallest cities as tribute and usually get it.
However you are absolutely right when you say that the other civs will not accept one of your cities as part of any deal.

Yes, I believe the fix only applied when YOU offered cities to the AI, not the other way around (since the AI isn't programmed to take advantage of the exploit).

 

[Nanook]

You can still offer and demand cities are tribute and as a requirement for peace, you just can't include anything else in the deal. For example, you can offer a city to someone to get them to sign a peace treaty or as triibute, or you can demand on for the same, but you can't offer a peace treaty, 45 gold for peace and some city. City trading is a one way street now, either give or take.