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R.E.D. WWII: Concepts & Suggestions

Discussion in 'R.E.D. World War II Edition' started by Gedemon, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. NwabudikeMorgan

    NwabudikeMorgan CEO

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    you cannot capture cities with tanks, that may be your issue, try going in with infantry.
     
  2. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    I finally decided to give this a go, and I have to say it is fantastic. It is a better ww2 experience than my own mod to be quite honest. Nice work Gedemon, and of course also to everyone who helped. :goodjob:

    The presentation perks you added in really make it feel like a professional addon. Nice touch with the DoM audio too! That was very unexpected.

    I played about 15 turns as Italy just to check things out, and here are a few things I would like to bring up. Sorry if some are old news at this point.

    -First for whatever reason I didn't seem to get an option on whom to play as. It just seemed to start and I was given Italy. Not a big deal. My guess is it was an error on my part.
    -I think the low number of units works pretty well based on what I experienced. The HP is very high, and the reinforcement mechanic makes it so unit divisions hold up a long time. Even so, it might be a good idea to start out with a few more divisions. The Italian army seemed a bit too tiny.
    -The AI doesn't seem to be using its navy well at all. The French never attacked any of my ships in the Med. It just kept running from me when I attacked them. I think the AI was constantly trying to use them for blockaids instead of using them to fight.
    -Are there great generals? Didn't see any in the 15 turns I played. I know Italy isn't known for them, so that is why I'm wondering about them. It seems like they would fit in very well with what you've got already. Italy had 1 decent general that I used in my mod. Can't recall his name at the moment though.

    A minor bug I caught:
    -TXT_KEY_PROMOTION shows up for the starting Italian aircraft on 1 of its attributes/promos. I'm thinking it may be air recon? I noticed the aircraft lacked a decent air recon range too. Maybe this is intended though.
    -1 of my submarine packs attacked a french sub pack and inflicted 74 pts of damage in 1 attack. This seemed like it must have been a bug, since nothing else I'd seen up to this point came anywhere close to that. From what I can tell it is set as a unit with a hard combat ability of 5. Again maybe this is intended. I suppose subs aren't exactly big on taking a lot of damage before going kaput.

    I took screen shots of the 2 potential bugs and have attached them.

    So again, great work and thank you for this mod. I will look forward to playing a full game later on.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. champ123

    champ123 Chieftain

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    Currently i´m playing as sovjet union. Polish troops surrounded Berlin! Germany is fighting all the time Danzig and Posnan, but they cannot take the cities although their defense is a zero. Against france everything seems to work correctly. Is this a bug? When i started the game playing as germany, i had the same problem.
     
  4. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    Which two questions should I answer ? ;)

    Ok, I'll go for the three...

    1/ No. That's something I've tried in my old Stalingrad scenario, but it would have requested a forced save and reload at season change. As save/load can take e few minuts on some machines, it may have been possible in a one year scenario (but I didn't implement it finally), but for 6 years, that mean 12 forced save/reload, I don't know... It would be very interesting thus to simulate Russian winter, so if there's enough demand and proposal for interesting gameplay element, I know it can be done.

    But the downside must be pondered.

    2/ In current version I've tested the "No City Capture" promotion on all armor unit, following suggestion in the development thread. I will remove it in next version, as it seems to penalize the AI too much, I may reintroduce it when the DLL is available and some people (i.e. not me) start working on the AI.

    I may raise the penalty against city for armor unit to compensate, I want Infantry to be the urban warfare unit...

    3/ Yes. Not yet, but definitly yes. I just don't know in which form (just units given to UK/France or a complete civilization without cities but strong personnel/materiel reinforcement available). In the first case the human player will control the US units if he play allied (I must try to add a small flag icon above the unit then), in the second one (which could also be the case when the human play axis) USA will be a non-playable (hidden at start) civ on the map.


    Thanks :D

    And if you (and/or others) are willing to make a world scenario to include in this mod, I'll be glad to help the integration. Be warned it may prove to be moderately difficult, but I've tried to make the base mod as open as possible to add more maps in the future.

    In the setup screen, click in the "random leader" section to chose your country :D

    Yep, small number of units is intended, reinforcements will be available during play in future version (and then I may raise the units building cost).

    the navy AI is a vanilla problem, not much to do I'm afraid :(

    Unless someone find some nice flavor/AI formations combination...

    No great general, but I may add Mobile HQ (with some protection around) units to play the role.

    Thanks, I've forgotten some text keys it seems, will be fixed in next version.

    The recon attribute is removed ATM. The unsaid justification (until know) is that I still hope to be able to add a recon mission à la civ4 using Lua. Finger crossed on this one...

    That's a vanilla bug. The submarines are weak unit with strong ranged attack value, they one shoot kill each other when they meet.

    I've tried to counter that by giving a big penalty on sub against sub, but I've just forgotten that the effect was null in that case :blush:

    Next step is to try to keep that penalty, and just remove it of the defending sub whn attacked by another one. I hope I could find something more elegant before that.

    Another problem I have is to balance attacks on embarked units by Air and Sea units.

    In vanilla, a bomber can one shoot an embarked unit (the one with defending capacity) while it take a lot of shoot from a Sea unit (destroyer or battleship).

    In current version the subs can one shoot kill any embarked, so I need to re-balance it a little.


    See the No City Capture for armor problem, as said, I will remove it in next version :D
     
  5. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Sounds like a good idea, so count me as definitely interested. I'm already a good ways into completing what will probably be a last version for my old ww2 scenario, so I'll go ahead and finish that off for now.

    What sort of scale do you have in mind? If I could start from scratch making a world map for ww2, I would definitely make Europe more oversized than I had originally gone with. Maybe scale down central Asia (siberia included) even more so, and also oversize the US and Japan at the cost of Canada/South America on the other end. Probably trying to keep the Pacific ocean as large as possible at the same time though.


    I've seen these entries under globalaidefines before, but have yet to test out exactly what they do:

    Spoiler :
    Code:
    <Row Name="AI_OPERATIONAL_CITY_ATTACK_DEPLOY_RANGE">
    			<Value>5</Value>
    		</Row>
    		<Row Name="AI_OPERATIONAL_PILLAGE_ENEMY_DEPLOY_RANGE">
    			<Value>5</Value>
    		</Row>
    		<Row Name="AI_OPERATIONAL_NAVAL_BOMBARDMENT_DEPLOY_RANGE">
    			<Value>1</Value>
    		</Row>


    Maybe change the 3rd one to a 6 and see if that affects AI naval behavior at all. I'll probably check it out myself now that I'm curious about it.

    That's really too bad about the sub bug. I guess it was never noticeable before because the vanilla hp is set at 10, and it's not exactly a surprise that the high attack:combat defense ratio would lead to a 1 hit kill every time.
    Good idea with the recon mission though. I've no idea how you would do that, but it looks like LUA is quite a powerful tool so maybe.
     
  6. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    A quick test showed that changing that 1 entry had no noticeable effect. So, it's obviously not that simple if it's possible to correct it with ai flavor changes. I'll probably try a few more combinations later, and will let you know if anything fixes it.
     
  7. T_KCommanderbly

    T_KCommanderbly Prince

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    So I couldn't help but play this mod again, its better then the vannila game :), I was going to post some screenshots later of my game, hence it was long. But here are some ideas I thought about when I was playing. Gedemon I have to say, you are a genius with Lua, so Im going to assume some of these ideas aren't too far fetched.

    - I don't know if you ever played Hearts of Iron, but when a country that was not allied with the axis or allies, was attacked by either of the two alliances, it would join the other side. So like in my case in the game I was playing, if switzerland got attacked by France it should automatically ally itself with Germany and Italy so they can come to it's support.

    - A problem arising in my game is the fact that major nation's units can enter city state territory without declaring war. So Ill show the screenshot later but Germany was bringing units through turkey to randomely attack cities in Syria and France was able to send troops without declaring war through switzerland also. So I would propose unless the city state is allied with the nation or maybe even friendly you cannot enter their territory without declaring war.

    - So I got pretty late into the game about sept 1941 around 75 turns or so I believe, and I noticed that the AI only produced Artillery and Medium Tanks, which they spammed excessively. Which is fine except they couldn't capture any cities so basically they conquered all the territory around the city and just moved on. I think if you added more flavor to the barracks, then there would be more infantry being built. I also think that if you gave more barracks at the start more infantry would be built also.

    - Another late game thing was France was a freakin industrial power, Germany was on the outskirts of Paris and now 5 months later France is in Germany, with a huge army of tanks and artillery. Which I guess to a certain extent is realistic if France had the time to prepare for war, but I do feel like France's industrial power is too high.

    - The Soviet Union never went to war with Germany, however I don't know if that has been coded yet.

    - I know I'm an advocate for more units but I think Italy's navy is a bit too small.

    Last, thing was are you planning on cavalry units? since Poland relyed heavily on them at the start of the war.
     
  8. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    the first 2 are already planed (they are somewhere in the note section of the spreadsheet)

    about France, I don't remember adding much industry, I'll see that when back from work.

    Germany should declare war to USSR at some point, and some time later USSR become part of France/UK alliance.

    Not sure about cavalry, I will have enough units to add to Poland yet.
     
  9. champ123

    champ123 Chieftain

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    Does anybody else recognizes performance problems? From turn to turn, scrolling over the map gets really worse. I never had such problems before even on giant maps. its still worse although i´ve set down all graphics to low; even the screenresolution. Only in this scenario i have this problem.
    It´s a cool one but i am not able to play it anymore because of this.

    Nice idea to let the units of a defeated civ (poland) on the map! :goodjob:
     
  10. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

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    Like I said I only played 15 turns in, so maybe I didn't play long enough to run into that problem. Other than some very minor slowdowns at the beginning of a turn, I didn't see anything remotely game breaking in my own test.

    In fact I actually thought the game was running faster than what I've seen in other scenarios or huge vanilla games. I assumed this was due to the latest patch though. I don't see how someone could build a mod that makes the game run more efficiently.
     
  11. gosu

    gosu Chieftain

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    This looks really promising. Looking forward to the new version.
     
  12. Sethyboy0

    Sethyboy0 Chieftain

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    I got the same problem of crashing when trying to install the mod, but using WinRAR to extract it solved that problem.

    Overall, this is a really cool map. I haven't gotten very far into it due to today being my sister's birthday but I plan to keep going with this.
     
  13. wulfy

    wulfy Chieftain

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    50 turns German; combat is excellent (very tactical). Gameplay pretty good, healing could be improved (if done in city maybae). However, just not enough time if France doesn't surrender to prep for the Russians. One other thing, retreat is good but any unit completely surrounded should not be able to bunny hop into another location.

    Very enjoyable combat.
     
  14. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    Thanks for the report :D

    That should happen only when a unit is escaping a city, in open field if the 3 plot behind a unit are occupied (by another unit, water, city) then the unit won't retreat but get extra damage (50% of what was inflicted by the attacking unit)
     
  15. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    New version is done: R.E.D. WWII Edition (v6)

    I've made some balance tweaks based on your feedbacks and my tests game, added some features, the two majors being the new processes in cities for reinforcements, and the much asked "Fall of France" on Paris capture.

    Here's the changelog:

    v0.6 (Aug 22, 2011):
    - Bugfix: Attack Aircrafts were getting +20% combat against city instead of -25%.
    - Balance: Attack Aircrafts get +100% combat against land unit and +150% against armor (was +50% and +100%)
    - Balance: Submarines ranged attack divided by 2, but give x2 bonus against all other sea units (except other subs)
    - Balance: remove the "No City Capture" from armor units, AI was too much penalized.
    - Bugfix: this time really liberate allied/friend tiles after a city capture have given them to another civ.
    - Bugfix: unit escaping a captured city was getting wrong damage value.
    - Bugfix: in some conditions, the supply line function was trying to find the cities of a dead player...
    - Bugfix: flag of major civilization now correctly showing in war notification icons.
    - Feature: display information about reinforcement needed by a unit on city build screen mouseover tooltip.
    - Feature: "Buy War Bonds" (product materiel reiforcement) and "Your country needs you" (product personnel reinforcement) processes to city production.
    - Feature: restriction on type of units build by AI based on ratio
    - Feature: limited number of special unit classes for all game (ex: only two battleships of the Bismarck class allowed, if the Tirpiz is build and one of them is lost, no other can be build)
    - Feature: fall of France when Paris is captured by Axis power. If you play as France, you don't want to lose Paris, you really don't...
    - Added: Dawn of Man layout and texts by T_KCommanderbly
    - Added: second (this one's small) batch of units from danrell's WW2 packs:
    --- light tanks: AMR 35, FCM 36, Panzer 35(t), Vickers MKVIB, Tetrarch, Matilda I, T-26, L6/40



    Please refer to first post for installation instructions (and updated credits...), waiting for your new feedbacks now :D
     
  16. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    And please use 7zip or another archive extractor to install the mod, I'm sorry to confirm that the ingame modbrowser failed to install the core mod made with ModBuddy... Well, that's the endof my attemps to play it their way, now I will release it directly in 7zip format until the modhub is fixed (meaning you could upload the big files without error, and you could extract the small ones without another one :D )
     
  17. fromAustria

    fromAustria Chieftain

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    i have tried it, but i think i had an bug, because this auto war declare have bondage me with a war against the USSR at 1940 :sad:
    i didnt had the time to conquer whole france, or denmark, or the balkans, but it was funny, that the mighty soviet union, with millions of soldiers, cant bring enough troops to hold their front (screen) thats my second point, a little bit to less units (look at the top of the screen)... it looks also senthless to conquer citys, because i cant build units their? :confused: and lately, why there are city states at north africa and at the levant? you know that their independence came later?

    but good work, the first game year was funny! :)
     

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  18. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    Timeline was not my priority, because I wanted first to get a fell on the total number of turn the game must have to reflect the period from 1939 to 1945, set the game speed based on that, then link the game turn to historical events. My mistake was to made a calendar available, I should have wait for it too, know that is made people want (rightfully) the game event to reflect the calendar, not the game turns, so I've made it a priority in my list, but it's far from done yet :D

    you can build units in conquered cities once you've build a courthouse and a radio.

    finally I need the french colonies (and the others) to be separated for future mod features, but the CS are allied to France from start and follow it's declaration of war/peace.
     
  19. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    Bugfix version released : R.E.D. WWII Edition (v7)

    Should handle French colonies diplomacy on "Fall of France" event and fix that bad bug :

     
  20. Sethyboy0

    Sethyboy0 Chieftain

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    Just finished my v5 game with Germany and I have to say this mod is amazing. Here are a few things I noticed:

    The Russian heavy tanks are very powerful, and don't seem to have any real opposition. Are you planning on adding Tigers or Panthers anytime soon?

    I was playing on settler difficulty to get a feel for the mod and see its features, and it seemed like Italy was doing absolutely nothing even with the troops it had. I know this is probably due to the low difficulty, so what difficulty do you recommend for a civ newbie (I was thinking around the 4th or 5th, but I may give diety a shot to see how the AI behave)?

    The materials production for Germany seems kind of off at the start. Using only my starting army + a few bombers, I noticed that I wasn't really producing enough materials to resupply my units and cities until I had conquered all of France, all of the Baltic states, and some of Russia. I know I didn't have a factory in every city but some cities have amazingly slow production and factories are kind of expensive to buy.

    Didn't Russia declare war on the Baltic states?

    Overall, this is a great WWII mod. I'm looking forward to the new units and other things that will come in newer versions. I'm going to start a V7 Russia game now. :D
     

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