1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

R.E.D. WWII: Concepts & Suggestions

Discussion in 'R.E.D. World War II Edition' started by Gedemon, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. NwabudikeMorgan

    NwabudikeMorgan CEO

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2007
    Messages:
    375
    Location:
    Canada
    @Sethyboy0
    In v5 tanks couldn't capture cities, and thats why Italy doest do anything, since the AI didnt understand that they needed to use infantry, thats been fixed in more recent versions.

    Russia didnt "declare war" on the baltic states, they occupied them, then sent them an ultimatum that they would be warred upon unless they joined the USSR, so they came nicely.
     
  2. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,382
    Location:
    France
    yep, *soon*, but not as soon as next version I'm afraid.

    with v.6/v.7 use Stuka (give them land and armor promotion), that should damage without too much attrition on your side :D

    4th of 5th sound good, I've set the default to deity to compensate the IA difficulty in combat, I think 4-5th is good for beginner, but as always the best level is the one you find fun to play ;)

    The low material production is wanted, I want attrition warfare to play a big part in the mod, with v.8 I'll include a bonus from your friends and allied CS, and in later stage (not *soon*) the inclusion of resources and new buildings will help the materiel production.

    You have to use your troops wisely, knowing than more advanced tanks will use more material, that heavy units use material at double rate, and that some promotions will give you bonus when the unit is healing. Note that since v.6 the reinforcements needed for an unit is shown in the mouseover tooltip of the build menu.

    As a concrete example, in my latest tests, well promoted Stuka received 1 HP of damage when attacking french B1, dealing 7-8HP damage to the heavy tank at each run.

    To heal one Hit Point, a unit need 20 unit of personnel and reinforcement (there's a ratio for each unit)

    So to heal this HP, the Stuka need 17 materiel and 3 personnel. (materiel ratio is 8.5 for stuka)
    to heal 7 HP, the B1 need 7*18*2 = 252 materiel (double materiel needed for heavy units) and 7*2 = 14 personnel (materiel ratio is 9 for heavy tanks)

    As you see KV-1 or char B1 may seems impressive (and are...), but you need a strong production to be able to use them at full health...
     
  3. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,382
    Location:
    France
    ho, and the new processes in cities can help too, use food cities with "we need you !" process to get more personnel, and production/gold cities to get more materiel using "Buy War Bonds !" process.
     
  4. T_KCommanderbly

    T_KCommanderbly Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    402
    Location:
    United States
    oohhh versian 6 :), looks great again
     
  5. Delm

    Delm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Messages:
    71
    Enjoying the latest version, major bug when you capture paris however as all previous occupied territory (poland, denmark, belgium, netherlands) gets returned to the original owner...
     
  6. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,382
    Location:
    France
    so it seems you're not enjoying the latest version, try v.7 :D
     
  7. wulfy

    wulfy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Earth (maybe)
    Darn, wish I had capped Gay Paree on 6 before upgrading. That would have been quite the experience :)
     
  8. Delm

    Delm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Messages:
    71
    Thank you! :goodjob:
     
  9. jeffah3539

    jeffah3539 Leviathan

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    I have been playing v7 for the past couple of days and I have to say I am hugely impressed. The mod really gives you the impression that you are playing in the period. You did a great job with all the art and I love the units.

    Here are some notes so far from my game as Germany:

    1. Italy seems weak. I noticed that France sent most of their units south and invaded northern Italy. They didn't capture any cities but they did capture large amounts of territory. This also made conquering France quite easy for me as they only moved 2 Infantry and 1 Tank north to face my assault. Not really a huge deal as the Germans were able to conquer France in days in real life anyway. Only thing I could suggest is to maybe give France some fortifications and units along the Maginot Line (unless you already did this and the stupid AI just redeployed them south).

    2. The bug with the Fall of France is fixed and I didn't have any issues after conquering Paris.

    3. German Panzers are incredibly powerful. Nothing wrong with that as they were the basis of their Blitzkrieg strategy however the ability to use Blitz against cities is very powerful. I have not found any reason to use Infantry against cities yet as they only get 1 attack per turn while a pre-positioned Panzer III can attack a flatland city 5 times in one turn, generally with very attack as a Safe Attack. The -33% against cities is likely not a high enough penalty to discourage using them at the moment. The other issue is that Infantry do not do a large amount of damage against cities and can only attack once per turn. I think it would make sense to give Infantry a bonus to attacking cities in order to balance them with Armor units. I find that with 5 attacks from a Panzer III I can do ~30 damage per turn while taking ~15 damage total while an Infantry with their single attack can only do ~6 damage while suffering ~4 damage.

    4. The dates are off but you already know that. The general timeline was very accurate however I would recommend adding more turns between events, especially if you make any changes which make it more difficult to capture cities. Even with the Germans powerful military and Blitz Panzers it takes some time to conquer the enemy because of units high hp and especially rivers limiting the angles you can realistically attack from. If you were to move the war decs to the correct date in the mod's current timeline I think that would be just about perfect.

    5. It is very difficult to keep up with Materiel needs but I have a glut of Personnel. I think this stems from 2 sources:
    a. Panzers are so much more powerful than Infantry and have higher Materiel/Personnel ratios. I have definitely been using and wounding Panzers a lot more than Infantry so that, combined with my use of aircraft and U-boats, is likely draining my Materiel reserves very quickly.
    b. War Bonds produce very little Materiel. I currently have 7 cities producing War Bonds but they are only generating 34 Materiel per turn while the 2 cities I have producing Recruitment are generating 42 Personnel per turn.

    A possible idea with this might be to add oil fields in strategic locations which produce Materiel when captured. This factored into the Germans' decision to invade southern USSR after teir failure to capture Moscow and forced the British to expend resources securing the Middle East as it would have been disastrous for the Germans to gain control of those oil fields.

    6. The Allies never attempted a Naval blockade of my northern coast. The only Ally ships that I encountered were the HMS Hood and 2 Destroyers off the coast of Brest. They have just sat there while my U-boats slowly drain them down. I have killed one Destroyer and the Hood is at 50% hp yet they just continue to sit there taking torpedoes every turn. I am considering sending my Battleships to blockade London however that will leave them vulnerable to land based air attacks so I probably won't. I know this is probably more a problem with the game's AI but I figured I would let you know.

    Overall, this is a great scenario and I can't wait to attack the Soviets next. I think I am going to devote my Panzers for a fast push through Ukraine in the south all the way to Stalingrad with a force split off from that to head north and take Smolensk to use as an air base for the attack on Moscow. Moscow and Leningrad look to be pretty tough to take with the massive forests guarding their approach. I might try to flank Leningrad and land a small force there from sea. Great stuff!
     
  10. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    TX
    On the AI navy issue:

    Something you might try out Gedemon is changing all of the naval default unit AIs to ATTACK_SEA or whatever it's called. I know the vanilla setting for destroyers and subs is RESERVE_SEA. Another thing that might be worth checking is to see how AI handles its navy if you remove everything except ATTACK_SEA from its available AI options.

    Perhaps you have already tried this of course, but I thought I would mention it in case you hadn't. Would be nice to see the AI use its navy better, so I hope this gets fixed eventually.
     
  11. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,382
    Location:
    France
    thanks for feedbacks :D

    @jeffah3539 :

    1. Fortified (and immobile) units are planned for Maginot line, yes. I may add some units to Italy, but it's more a issue on AI use of units (more on that later)

    2. good

    3. You've just give me an idea to test : make tanks units lose all their movement points when attacking a city, so Blitz is of no use then. I've also planned to add +20% vs city to gun units (ie: infantries and mechanised-infantries), but I've forgotten (again) to add the promotion for v.7, should be in v.8. Then here the low material availability should also encourage the player to use infantry instead of tanks.


    5. I still want Materiel to be more difficult to gain. About the ressources, I will add oil (and fuel reserve) ingame at some point, but it's more the iron ore and alluminium resources that will boost the materiel production via buildings. No ETA for this, I'll try to raise the material flux a bit for v.8

    6. I have some ideas for AI, but it will require so much coding that I'm afraid I won't be able to handle (I'm really an amateur coder, so I spend lot's of time debugging, trying to code some override to AI units may be out of my league, but I'll see if something more or less simple could be added to make AI navy looks less like sitting ducks)

    Not tried, the problem with flavors is that testing changes take too much time. I was hoping someone had tested it already (removing the reserve tag)
     
  12. rhettrongun

    rhettrongun Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2011
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    TX
    I agree that it does take too much time. I have a very small testing map I have been using to run ai flavor changes though, so that makes it a little more bearable running tests just to get a basic idea of how the AI is changing. So, I'll plan to test these out later on. If it helps I'll let you know, and you can consider testing it with your full mod.

    I might do the test on your mod myself, but I don't think it allows adding external mod components to it as is. I tried this once earlier with some other things I wanted to try with the navy ai, and got a red light.
     
  13. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,382
    Location:
    France
    well, for test purpose you can bypass that limitation by adding just one line in RedEuro1940Setup.lua

    find :

    Code:
    if ( not g_bCanLoad ) then
    and add a line just before with "g_bCanLoad = true"

    Code:
    g_bCanLoad = true
    if ( not g_bCanLoad ) then
    I hope that your test will be successful :D
     
  14. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    9,382
    Location:
    France
    I've just realised that I've forgotten to uncomment a line before releasing last version...

    I've set a ratio of unit type to force the AI to build something else than tanks and artillery, but to test it I've extended the function to the human player, and so the human is also rationed in current version...

    So I'll remove it for next release, will be sooner that what I had planned initially, maybe tomorrow...
     
  15. Delm

    Delm Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Messages:
    71
    Game runs really good now, really enjoying my game playing as the UK atm... :D

    1. The only issues that I think are annoying is the fact that the AI won't use their navy to attack mine (unless I completely block their unit with mine, in which case they actually fire when its their turn). Someone mentioned earlier that there is a ship returning fire when attacked mod. Maybe you can implent it in your mod?

    2. AI not using fighters to intercept my bombers, AI use their fighters to bomb instead of intercept or sweep... maybe its possible to remove the bomb option for fighters? Forcing the AI to either sweep or intercept...

    3. I already mentioned this earlier and you were looking to fix it somehow. The french has occupied a lot of land in Italy, the french units are destroyed but Italy won't recapture the lost tiles. Might be difficult to code but an idea I had would be that if a nation has surrounded a group of tiles with neither city or land units those tiles would automatically be occupied.
     
  16. CIV5SUCKS

    CIV5SUCKS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Oregon
    I extracted the files properly and did as says in the OP, but with the second file, the core mod. Whenever I try installing it into my web browser to be able to enable it and play it in Civ, it freezes at 87/105. I've tried over 5 times now and it still wont work.
     
  17. Canabrava

    Canabrava Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    391
    Location:
    Brazil
    I'm having trouble.

    In the game, i can't produce nothing, i can't research nothing. All are empty. Nothing is showed to me. I think instalation is the problem.

    I'm using 1.0.1.348 version.
     
  18. jeffah3539

    jeffah3539 Leviathan

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    Jacksonville, FL
    You have to manually extract that file to the MOD folder using a program like Winrar or 7zip because the ingame extraction freezes up. I just opened up Winrar and found the file in my Documents folder and had Winrar extract it.
     
  19. wulfy

    wulfy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2008
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Earth (maybe)
    When you download mod files via Windows you're not done. Use another 3rd party zip tool and unzip the core file (2nd file labeled v7) separately into your CIV5 mod folder. The data file uncompresses fine directly inside CIV5 but the core file is what freezes CIV5.

    No research in mod yet.
     
  20. Canabrava

    Canabrava Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    391
    Location:
    Brazil
    I dont understand.

    I downloaded 2 files. Created 2 folders on MODs folder (RED Data files and RED WWII Edition v7). Extratect each file onto each folder. Started civ 5 and installed mods. Turned on just data files and edition. Games starts rigth, but my production is empty.

    I missing something in this extraction files.
     

Share This Page