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R.E.D. WWII: Concepts & Suggestions

Discussion in 'R.E.D. World War II Edition' started by Gedemon, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. sonihi

    sonihi Chieftain

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    Hmm maybe reducing the effectivness after 1 air attack. Units wouldnt just stand around, they would try to hide or find other positions where they wont be attacked easily. I would say this penalty would be more against ground attack aircraft because they look for targets compared to just bombing an area.

    Or you could just rebalance the promotions like what you did with the ground units.
     
  2. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    I was pondering a limit like for cities since the beginning, I'm not happy with the ability to kill a unit from bombing, but instead of a hard limit I may adapt what you're proposing, it make sense to be able to give higher damage when the unit is at max health than when it's dispersed in smaller groups.
     
  3. ZeroZeroSix

    ZeroZeroSix Prince

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    Even for ships?
     
  4. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    nop, land units only (but from all bombardment)

    related to that, there is still room for more promotions for ranged (air, land, sea) units BTW, even more if I raise the number of units per tile for the World Map...

    (edit: and the "critical hit" mechanism for naval combat)

    (edit 2 : and a kind of "opportunity fire" mechanism for naval unit to replace the ZOC)
     
  5. BeLikeWater

    BeLikeWater Chieftain

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    Aircraft

    I've had a couple of thoughts, they don't necessarily synergize all together, but maybe a few in combination might improve Aircraft gameplay.

    1. Increase air vs air damage.

    2. Reduce all damage air vs ground, but give Logisitics as an auto-promotion (or adding a 3rd strike possibility, i.e. Logistics 2 or something.) The damage reduction would account for the more attack chances, but the more attack chances per turn would keep planes relevant by allowing for several attacks per turn.

    3. Buff/Nerf planes even more than they are as it relates to their specific intended role, i.e. Interceptors(only really effective vs other aircraft), Ground Attack(only really effective vs ground units and less so vs other aircraft and cities), Bombers(only really effective vs cities or tile improvements, maybe somehow reducing the defensive bonuses provided by the improvement? Bombing a fort or bunker may not severely damage the units within, but they significantly receive less defense vs future ground attacks as a result). Pretty much setting Aircraft base stay bonuses even more so to restrictively encourage their uses. The Ju-88 specifically seems OP to me as I can do significant damage to ground units AND go bomb cities AND ships, especially as they gain promotions.

    4. Restrict coexisting promotions? (Disallow obtaining +attack vs armor and +attack vs cities, etc.)

    5. Instead of 4. maybe modify the bonus that promotions give to effectively restrict the diversity of role? For example, taking a promotion might give [+% vs Cities] AND [-% vs Ground Units] or something along those lines. I know in real life aircraft are able to take a variety of ordinances depending on the mission, but in Civ it might be worthwhile for balance to restrictively limit the roles of the aircraft.

    6. Potentially reduce ground attack damage vs units in cover? As difficult as it should be for a Ground Attack plane to hit individual infantry in open ground, it should be far more difficult to damage them in a forest. Bunker busters might be a good addition as a specific role to provide some help vs lines of fortifications.

    Personally I would like to see more specific roles for aircraft (whether that is determined by their base stats or their individual promotions chosen), less damage overall vs ground, and really MORE Logistics Promotions. Time is funky to think about in Civ as a turn based game and makes many balancing aspects challenging, but I feel like planes should be able to run more sorties balanced by their greatly reduced/balanced damage output.

    Cheers!
     
  6. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    The aircraft classes are already very specialized (see the base promotions in the NewPromotions.xml file, and feel free to tweak/test them BTW)

    I mean, can you really use Bf-109s effectively against infantries, tanks or ship ?

    we can make them even more specialized (the Me-262 for example can't attack at all, just intercept), but you'll gain an advantage on the AI, because it can't use well specialized units (or it makes my work way harder if not impossible to code it)

    but reworking the promotions is a big todo (not only air, but defensive units like tank destroyer need their own promotion line), and suggestions on that are welcome.

    about air to air, it's in the 4-6 HP range for fighters of the same strength, and can quickly goes in the max 15HP when you go one class up with a few promotions

    and I'm really thinking of implementing the escort/interception draft we've talked about, with intercepted bombers doing less damage to their target.
     
  7. ZeroZeroSix

    ZeroZeroSix Prince

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    I never been fan of the civ 5 promotions based on rough/flat terrain. Any given units should be abble to perform well on any given terrain except some exception, tank and mechanized dont fare well in swamp and so on. Instead, promotion can be jobs oriented. Like tank killer, recon, street fight, commando...

    There is that game, Panzer General 2 that have a good list of promotion.

    http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Panzer_General_II/Leaders
     
  8. Formulapower

    Formulapower Warlord

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    This would be a great fix! I agree that it is a little ridiculous that an entire division would be destroyed from bombing. One thing to keep in mind though is how to keep the AI from using all of it's air attacks on a unit that is already hit the limit....I have noticed the AI continues to bomb cities even though they are not doing anymore damage which is a waste of air power not to mention gives the human play an advantage because they would likely not behave in the same way.

    Also you could look at units retreating if under heavy bombardment the same way they do when under ground attack...I am not sure how you implemented the retreat function so it might not be feasible but it would give the attacked unit a chance to retreat out of range or out of sight which would be an understandable tactic in that situation.
     
  9. sonihi

    sonihi Chieftain

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    Rebalancing Flak Panzers? If you look at the Coelian or other later german flak panzers you will see that they around 40 in strength, which is stronger than Infantry but also a 100% Bonus versus armor which gives some of them 90-100 Strenght vs Tanks which gives them the ability to fight head on vs IS-3s and IS-7s. And air attacks are useless against them. They just seem to OP when defending.
     
  10. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    added in the "to do" list, thanks.
     
  11. Jenyariy

    Jenyariy Chieftain

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    I suggest adding the date when the project of the unit becomes available in description of units in Civilopedia.
     
  12. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    the Civilopedia need a huge update, but that specific part is difficult : there is a bit of randomness in dates for project's availability and some projects are linked to other projects or to the XP gained with a specific unit type.
     
  13. Jenyariy

    Jenyariy Chieftain

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    But it can be descripted, right? =)
     
  14. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    they are described under the Wonders tag in the Civilopedia if that's your question.
     
  15. Treys1

    Treys1 Chieftain

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    Civilopedia! While I cannot script well enough to help you work out bugs, I'd be more then happy to help write some new parts to that :D
     
  16. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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  17. Jenyariy

    Jenyariy Chieftain

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    Gedemon, why are the french and english colonies just allied city-states? That makes foreign legion not buildable(89 turns, I won the game as Germany on 67th turn)
     
  18. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    Just buy them, and even if they were part of France, Sidi bel abbes would still the only place to train Legion.

    They are city states to allow war state and liberation independently from Vichy France.
     
  19. Jenyariy

    Jenyariy Chieftain

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    What do you mean?
     
  20. Gedemon

    Gedemon Modder Moderator

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    I mean being able to liberate Syria for example without being able to invade South of France when playing without alternate history.
     

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