Rad/Flux Shields Moo II

Kumquat

Not an Orange
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
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547
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Hey :) I have only been playing for a week so I am pretty nooby and have no idea how to deal with Rad/Flux Shields. Beam weapons and missiles don't do much of anything to them and I am hesitant to try adding bombs because I would have to refit a fleet of ships or make a new fleet. Any help would be appreciated ;)
 
It's been a while since I played any MOO II, so I hope I remember everything correctly. I never add bombs to ships. They're useless for killing ships & once you defeat a planet's defenses, you can bombard a planet into oblivion without them. If I remember correctly (no guarantees here), I just use brute force to get through those. I can't recall exactly what it takes to get past those, but I do seem to recall killing fleets, then having to go back and refit ships before returning to take the planet. Where are you in techs & what are your ship designs like?
 
No need for bombs in MooII. Radiated Shield give -5 to bombing. Flux give -10. This means that any bombardment needs to do more than 5 points on a Rad shield to get any damage done. 10 points, if they have a Flux shield.

Check on the weapon you are mounting and see what it is able to do and factor in any range penalties or other issues.

Phasors should work fine on both. If you run into Barrier shields, then I would use Disrupters with a heavy mount. They will eventually grind it down. If it is an end game time, then if you have the tech just use Stellar.

You can either bust the shields or destroy the planet.
 
I have Phasors but there pretty fresh outta my think tanks so they only have the heavy mount mod and I stole Gauss Cannons so I redesigned my fleet to carry Gauss Cannons(there better then phasors till I get more mods)but I haven't refitted my fleets yet. I want a better method to cracking there shields then attrition because that is going to fail XD All there planets have Flux Shields on the side I tried to attack @~@ There empire is bottlenecked and its heavily fortified with Flux Shields, Missile Barracks, Ground Batteries, and Fighter Garrions. I tired to go around there systems and attack the ones behind them but same story there plus no fuel to go deeper. Right now its just me and the Sakkra xD I killed 2 of my neighbors out of desperation early when I saw the size of the Sakkra and Silicoid empires :o At that time we each had 25~30% of the Galaxy each pretty bloody seeing how it was an 8 race game. Then as time wore on and we stared at each other wondering who was going to make the first move then Sakkra invaded the Silicoids. I jumped in after they went at it for a few turns seeing which side was winning. So I attack Sakkra who was completely destroying the Silicoids thinking that there fleet was on the other side of the galaxy and it would be easy pickings. I was wrong :lol: I ran into a wall hard and lost several ships so I changed my strategy to blitz raids. I would attack a system destroy the battlestation and as many ships as I could and retreat until I destroyed every one I could reach. So where I stand now is the Silicoids are pretty much dead 2 systems on my boarder and I have to fight the main Sakkra fleet which was busy while I raided the "bottleneck". Most of my fleets have Graviton Beams and Mirved Merculite Missles and need to be refitted but thats not going to happen :crazyeye: They need to hold the border and help me try to claim the ruins of the Silicoid Empire from the Sakkra. If I could make progress on the shields I could invade there core systems and win the war/game but I don't have the numbers for that. I have 4 titans, 5 battleships, 11 cruisers and a 9 destroyers to defend my empire on a huge map. Well I am ranting better go ;)
 
You should be able to defend, if you researched Warp Interdictor. Put one up on each system, not each planet. That buys time to get there. Are you creative? I ask as you have Titans and I only get that, when creative. I take Ground Bateries as they help defend. Don't really need the others in this field.

Battleships are all you need. What level is your computer as that effects beams a great deal. I tend to go Mass Driver, Phasor and Disrupters. Those are the only guns I use, unless it is a kill all huge map. Then I may try to get Stellars to use to destroy planets and save me time and work.

I would not worry about Missile Bases or Fighter Garrisons. If you send enough battleships and they have good computers, you will take those down, before they do damage.

If you cannot put up a good ship, lacks good comps then you need numbers. If I was having issues with planets, I would consider taking the newly captured Coid planets as they will not have defenses. I also like the idea of attacking their fleet early as I can, so I have less to worry about on my planets.

Are you using Heavy Armor or reinforced? Which ever one I have I want on all my ships and battle pods. A Battle Scanner for beams. Stabilizer as soon as I can fit one and still have a few guns.
 
Well I have rebuilt my fleet but I cannot do anything to the planet shields not even 1 dmg. They might not be flux shields afterall but on the plus side my fleet is far superior. I get titans because titans are to good to pass up I am playing the Darlocks slightly tweaked to improve there spy bonus so there was no room for creative. Titans are 5 CP and Battleships are 4 CP yet titans are as good as 2 battleships so you get more bang for your buck and also its safer for your leaders to be in them. I just have to wait till I get some mods for my better beam weapons then maybe I can crack there shields. I can take the whole former Silicoid Empire easily because its empty and 1 of my Titans is worth about as much as atleast bare min 4 Sakkra Battleships so I have this game :) In the game before this I was in big trouble though :lol: The Klackon ran away with the galaxy while I was busy building stuff and they had Locknar or w/e plus about 40 titans and 30 battleships on my border when I rushed Antares for the win. My ships have Cybertronic Computers +100 beam attack and special systems are Battlepods, Reinforced Hull, Hard Shields, and Lightning Field. I have Inertial Stabilizers AND Nullifiers but I would rather have more beams then more def I have lots of def anyway. I am a builder and want to win by galactic council but 1 AI always ruins it by being super aggressive and I can only stop him for so long ~sigh~ I would love a peaceful game or 1 where the AI can actually defend itself.
 
"Kumquat"
"Well I have rebuilt my fleet but I cannot do anything to the planet shields not even 1 dmg. They might not be flux shields afterall but on the plus side my fleet is far superior."

If they have Barrier Shields you will need something strong like Disrupters.

"I get titans because titans are to good to pass up I am playing the Darlocks slightly tweaked to improve there spy bonus so there was no room for creative. Titans are 5 CP and Battleships are 4 CP yet titans are as good as 2 battleships so you get more bang for your buck and also its safer for your leaders to be in them."

There are two problems with that concept.
1) CP are not the issue at that point
2) it takes longer to make a fully loaded Titan than a Battleship

A third issue is you should not be researching Titan to have them. I would rather have Ground Batteries to fend off Antarians or a small fleet that I cannot get a fleet to the scene.

Don't let them destroy you ships that have a leader onboard.

"In the game before this I was in big trouble though :lol: The Klackon ran away with the galaxy while I was busy building stuff and they had Locknar or w/e plus about 40 titans and 30 battleships on my border when I rushed Antares for the win."

I guess that works, but I would not even build Dimension Port as I have no interest in the taking of Antares. I would rather take out the planets. The first 100 time was ok, but I seen Antaries enough.

I like to try for Orion about the time I get Phasors, if you wait much past that point someone else may get there first at Impossible.

"My ships have Cybertronic Computers +100 beam attack and special systems are Battlepods, Reinforced Hull, Hard Shields, and Lightning Field. I have Inertial Stabilizers AND Nullifiers but I would rather have more beams then more def I have lots of def anyway."

I would rather dump the Nullifiers and Hard Shells and Lighting Fields. Pack in more guns instead. No wonder you prefer Titans, you would not be able to get any guns in a battleship with all that stuff.

"I am a builder and want to win by galactic council but 1 AI always ruins it by being super aggressive and I can only stop him for so long ~sigh~ I would love a peaceful game or 1 where the AI can actually defend itself."

Not sure if you can win by vote. Maybe, if you are Charismatic and who knows what hoops you would have to jump through. Win the vote, by being the only voter. :D

I play as Repulsive so I do not have to talk to the AI, just war. Otherwise you can make them give you whole systems, not much fun in that.

Post a save and I will see what the issue is with the shields.
 
A titan takes as long to make as 2 battleships but is cheaper on the CP and you might not have CP problems but I always do, ;) Right not in my game I am at -25 CP so my titans are saving me alot, glad I am still pulling in gold with that much -CP. Misslebases behind a Starbase can deal with Antaren frigates besides I usually have a defensive net early/mid game and my fleets can get there easy late game. I send out 1 frigate and 1 colony ship to a system then I leave the frigate there to defend so when an enemy attacks a system and my fleet cannot get there I can pull frigates from neighboring systems to the one that needs help. I would post a save but this game is pretty much won the Sakkra fleet is garbage xD My titans kill there Best battleships in 2 hits there older models in 1. Thank you for the advice though it was helpful :)

PS:Oh yeah I have the technology for Stabilizers & Nullifiers but there not actually ON my ships, Nullifiers take up WAY to much room.
 
I won't have Missile Bases, cannot afford to skip Automated Factories. CP are often a nusiance, but not a killer. You have so many ways to deal with them. Including paying for the over run.

Often I am not playing as a Unification, but rather a Dictorship. Imperium boost CP by 50%. I may select Warlord for my morph points. Get more planets and build a Star Base.

I try to steal Tachyon, unless I got lucky and got it or Battle Scaner from and Arti world.

Subspace Comm replaces Tachyon.

Hyper Dimension's Hyperspace Comm

One of my main ways is to use those better ships to get by with fewer of them. Once I take out Orion and have Loknar, not always first, I look for their fleets and go after them. If I kill their fleets, I do not need much to protect planets, warp interdictor gives me time to get back.

If you took Lighting Fields instead, that is a problem. I will soon head straight for Star Gates, so now I can always get home in time. Now I can fly back some boats to upgrade and be able to deal with any planetary defense they may have.

Disrupters will work on what ever they muster up on the planet.

I won't have a defensive net as those early ships cost CP and will do nothing most of the game, building them and parking them is going to slow me down. If Darlok are still around when I get Mutation I will take Omni so their stealth fleets cannot sneak up on me.

If you have MB, them get them up and no ships are needed for a long time, unless they come with a large fleet, but by then you are tracking them down.
 
I don't see what is so bad about arming ships with bombs. Up till at least mid game, bombs are one of the few weapons that can cause damage through the planetary shields. Other weapons that can are the torpedoes, later missiles and interceptors/bombers. Once you reach the level where plasma cannons, disruptors, maulers and death rays are available, there's no longer a need those others. But early game, the beam weapons do little or no damage to shielded planet weapons.

What I do is outfit some ships as specialist planet attackers. Usually cruiser size, armed with a couple autofire mass drivers for picking off fighters and missiles (all my designs of destroyer size and up get 1 or 2 anti-missile/fighter weapons) and then as many bombs as I can fit on them. For their specials, I give them aug engines, bat scan for the mass drivers (they wont hit anything without it) and transporters once I get that (with these, you can bomb the planet from 12 tiles away), besides bat pods, and maybe hvy armor or rein hull if I'm still still using the early armor types. It takes 2-3 turns for these ships to get in position. I also outfit some ships as torpedo specialists and build carriers and missile ships (sometimes I combine the fighters and missiles into one ship design). These latter don't need any extra speed, since they don't close in. In fact, the carriers and missile I usually have launch and retreat. The torpedo specialists can get close enough to the planet on the 1st turn to fire. What usually happens is I have these types attack the planet weapons, since they don't hit immediately, and the rest of my ships concentrate on their ships and orbital. I prefer beams to attack ships and orbitals since I want to take out as many of these as possible before they start shooting. By the time I knock out the defending ships and orbital, the bomb ships, the torpedoes, the missiles and the fighters are hitting the planet. Any ships with beams that can do some planet damage also fire at the planet then. Frequently, after I've had a few battles, I use captured ai battleships and titans for my planet attacks as they usually have masses of bombs, torpedoes, missiles and beams and since they were "free" and cant be later upgraded, I consider them expendable. My usual ship attack strategy is to try and capture the strongest ships opposed for this purpose and to use the extra ones to guard recently captured systems so the ai doesn't target them once I move the fleet on to the next victim (they like to attack your fresh captures if these are left poorly defended). The ai in these battles will target these planet attack ships and also my capture specialists first, I've noticed. Apparently it recognizes the danger. If the planet has ground batteries, having these captured battleships and titans lead the charge and absorb the 1st salvo is very useful - if rather cold-hearted.

Lately I've only played using mods I've developed. In these, I've boosted the torpedoes and missile damage some. The beams are pretty much the same, except I rearranged which specials they get. I also bumped up all the computers 25% since early game beams never hit in the stock game. The strategy above I also used to use with the stock game. Early game strategy can vary quite a bit depending on the situation I'm in. I've played games where I never went to war and had trade/research treaties and good relations with all the aliens. Other times, I'm fighting almost from the beginning. It depends who my neighbors are. Usually there is a couple aliens who the game doesn't let you negotiate with (repulsives), sometimes as many as 4, on rare times none. Those you usually end up having to fight. I try to expand peacefully as far as possible until a repulsive looks close to attacking, and then start building warships. So sometimes, it's mid game before I've built up any kind of fleet.

Usually if not attacked early on, the 1st warships I build are destroyers armed with just interceptors and missiles. These are to attack monster guarded planets. They're cheap and can be built quickly and the survivors get rebuilt after wards to more suitable designs to oppose fleets with. My largest ships are generally one size smaller than the opposition till late game. Early beams I prefer are fusion with enveloping (good for peeling shields on the opening salvo) and ar piecing, auto firing mass drivers (they bypass the armor and are good at quickly disabling ships and orbitals). When I get neutron blasters, that's when the ship capturing begins. I'll use a few grav beams when I get them, too, but rely mostly on the fusion, mass drivers and neutron blasters. These are worked into 3 main offensive types. A slow type armed with hvy mass drivers, a fast hvy fusion design and another fast design armed with fusion and neutron blasters (the capture type). The slow mass driver types are upgraded to gauss and disrupters when these are available. The capture types get plasma and death rays eventually. The fusion types become various combinations of phasor, plasma, mauler and ion pulse (the latter an extremely nasty weapon against shield down ships in its hvy autofire version). I think late game my favorite all purpose beam is the enveloping plasma cannon. Battleships armed with hvy, continuous, enveloping plasma and all the hitting specials you can fit into those 8 slots can take on anything. Late game, I've gone to Antares with 4 of these and ships 3 & 4 were not even needed.

The main defensive design I build is a destroyer armed with autofire mass drivers to knock out fighters and missiles. These are always given aug engines. Usually the surviving carriers used to attack monster guards are upgraded into these ships. Later game, gauss, then enveloping plasma replaces the mass drivers. These are very useful in knocking out fighters and missiles before they reach their victims.
 
Capturing ships has always been an art that eludes me. It's rare that I can immobilize a ship without destroying it & then, even if I can, I have to have troops to take over the ship (if I remember correctly). Truth be told, I usually find the AI ship designs to be so poor that I don't really want to use them, except maybe as bait, or something expandable. As far as planets, I'd rather just wipe out a planet than take it, only to have it taken from me. If I don't have the guns to hold a planet, I'd rather just kill it off. Sometimes, I'll drop an outpost on it and move on to the next target. Consequently, bombs just don't make as much sense as missiles for me. Bombs cannot be used against ships or space stations. Missiles, on the other hand, can be used against ships, space stations and planets. So for my money, missiles are the better value. A fleet of destroyers and battleships, armed with fast racks and mirved merculites can do a surprising amount of damage to an enemy empire.
 
Early game capturing is usually an affair of luck. Once you do manage to immobilize a ship and get its shields down, without neutron blasters it takes a lot of marine boarders to over come the crew, which means a lot of ships need to try and board. Usually there isn't enough ships close enough. There is also the chance of losing several ships if the ai self-destructs while your ships are next to it. They usually do self-destruct on their turn if it looks hopeless for them. Once you have neutron blasters it's less difficult since without the crew, you only need 1 marine to board and capture it. I recently discovered the usefulness of assault shuttles in the early game. With these you don't need to immobilize the target, just neutralize its shields. Their drawbacks are they use up a lot of space and are slow so you need a lot of them. The ai will prioritize them during its turn, also. When I get transporters, capturing a ship is almost as easy as destroying it. One of the benefits of capturing I forgot to mention before is if you selected the telepathic trait, you can turn those captures immediately upon former owners during that same battle. Another is you don't have to waste missiles and beam shots reducing a heavily armored ship or orbital and can switch to a fresh target. Mid game I frequently capture orbitals and turn their weapons on the planet defenses. This can save a turn knocking these out. Very important if they have ground batteries.

I used to rely upon missiles when I 1st started playing the game, but now frequently don't use them unless absolutely necessary to avoid ruin. I found they usually over killed too much. I like to capture planets intact so I can immediately put them to use and don't have to wait 50-100 turns as I rebuild their pop and infrastructure. Many of them are better than my homegrown best. If I have to go to war early, capturing another empire's systems can double the size of mine in only 20 turns or so. Taking telepathic means no need for transports to take a planet, so no need to reduce its troop strength. If not using this trait, then circumstances sometimes force other strategies. Like when I need to reduce an opponent fast before they get up a good sized fleet, but I don't have enough transports to capture more than a couple planets. I'll go through their systems reducing their pop and infrastructure, but I wont wipe them since other ai will just move in with colony ships. Later, I will return and capture them.

I found bombs to be more effective for my style of play. You can control the damage they do better, and cost and space wise, you get more bang for your buck. In practice, it only takes about 1 more turn for ships to reach a planet and start bombing than it does for missiles to reach it. If the ships have transporters, they'll get there the same turn the missiles do. When I do use missiles, I try to avoid over killing the planet. In fact, I arm the missiles ships with only the 2 salvo missile batteries since I find almost all battles are determined by the end of the 2nd turn and more that 2 salvos against a planet risks over kill. 2 salvo batteries cost more per missile than 5 salvo batteries, but you get twice as many missiles launching per turn.

Edited:

I wanted to add that capturing ships brings a new dimension of play to the game. It's not just mass shoot 'em up in battles where you take down the enemy with overwhelming firepower any more, you get to strategize more. For me it put new life into playing the game.
 
I'm sure that ship capturing does change the nature of ship design and combat for you. For me, though, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. If I'm trying to capture ships, then I have to use a lot of space in my ships for weapons that are really useful only for ship capture, like neutron blasters. They're fine for killing marines (and they look cool, IIRC), but they don't do a very good job against things like missile bases and fighter garrisons.

As far as capturing colonies, yes, that's a quick way to grow your empire. OTOH, if I want to keep a planet, I have to defend it. Most of the time, I just bust the planet, and move on to my next target. I don't like leaving ships behind to to defend my new conquests. Obviously, if my opponent has a tech lead, or the planet is a real gem, I'll make exceptions.

I will say this, though, this discuss has really sparked my MOO2 urge. I think I'll have to reinstall it and crank up a game later. If I do that,, I'll try out something other than my usual "if it's worth killing, it's worth overkilling" method. :D
 
I could not get the Win version to run in Win7 and had to use the Dos version running with DosBox. At least I can run it in a window now or full screen.
 
I've been using dosbox to mod MOO2 with a dos program, but it's funny, I've never tried playing MOO2 with dosbox since I've been able play with the windows exe. When I finish getting this mod fine tuned, I'll have to remember to make a dos version also. I'm almost done. Just need to tweak the leaders a bit - I gave them too many techs and need to cut the numbers back some - since a test game over the weekend using a charismatic species showed this to be a bit too much overpowering. Reading this thread also got me interested in firing up MOO2 again.

In the previous test game (from last fall) I played till someone made a dash for Orion. Ironically, it was the species that was the most backward in tech. This was a game where I used the tactics described in the above posts so I thought I'd post how it actually played out in a game in case anyone is interested. Earlier in the game the Silicoids didn't like it when I snatched a valuable planet from under their nose and began sniping for about 10 turns before finally declaring war. Soon after this declaration, there was a vote of the council and I wrote down the population strengths of the different species. Both the Silicoids and I were tied for first place with 16. The war lasted about 40 turns, with the Silicoids on the offensive for about the first 30 while I built up a fleet ( I was not ready). After that, it took me a little over 10 turns to wipe them out. There was another council vote a couple of turns after the Silicoid's demise. Between turn 19.9 and turn 22.4, my population went from 16 to 41, and was then more than 3 times the size of the next largest empire. I fought the war with cruisers supported by destroyers. The Silicoids fielded mostly battleships, with a few titans and couple smaller ships. My game notes show I lost a total of 2 cruisers. I destroyed 3 titans, 7 battleships and a cruiser and captured 1 titan, 4 battleships and a frigate. I also captured 9 Silicoid planets which also coughed up the techs: gauss cannon, planetary stock exchange, transporters, positronic computer, weather control system, titan construction, stealth suit, class 3 shield and food replicators. Capturing those Silicoid ships probably prevented the loss of a lot more of my ships, since the Silicoids were ahead in tech.
 
No need for bombs in MooII. Radiated Shield give -5 to bombing. Flux give -10. This means that any bombardment needs to do more than 5 points on a Rad shield to get any damage done. 10 points, if they have a Flux shield.

Check on the weapon you are mounting and see what it is able to do and factor in any range penalties or other issues.

Phasors should work fine on both. If you run into Barrier shields, then I would use Disrupters with a heavy mount. They will eventually grind it down. If it is an end game time, then if you have the tech just use Stellar.

You can either bust the shields or destroy the planet.

I'm not sure where I read it but I think beam weapons do only half the normal damage against planet. So let's say we have a normal mass driver with the base damage of 6. When shooting a planet, damage gets halved to 3, and if the planet has a radiation shield, the damage is always zero because the shield blocks it. With this math, normal disruptors (40dmg) do zero damage against barrier shields (20 dmg blocked). I can't test those right now, but it fits my experiences.

For example in one game I had battleships with Hv graviton beams (4.5-22.5 dmg). When attacking planet with a radiation shield, they did only 0-5 damage which is like... nothing. Btw, graviton beams are quite good because they can even punch through heavy armor. The 'extra structural damage' is nearly equal to the normal damage. So you need to only shoot away one third of the 'heavy' armor, and the ships blow up because structure points dropped to zero.

I don't see what is so bad about arming ships with bombs. Up till at least mid game, bombs are one of the few weapons that can cause damage through the planetary shields. Other weapons that can are the torpedoes, later missiles and interceptors/bombers. Once you reach the level where plasma cannons, disruptors, maulers and death rays are available, there's no longer a need those others. But early game, the beam weapons do little or no damage to shielded planet weapons.

The problem with bombs is that to use them you have to move into the point blank range, while the defenders keep shooting at your ships. In the worst case, the planet has a stellar converter shooting a couple of ships which is, umm... bad. Also bombs can only be used against one type of target which wastes space from other weapons.

In the early to mid game, I think missile boats are the best way to bust planet defenses, like this:

Missile Battleship
Systems: Battle pods, Fast missile racks, Reinforced hull if armor is not good
All the space filled with 2x ARM FST (maybe ECM, MIRV) missiles

When the battle begins, move forward, unload the salvo on the planet/battlestation, and retreat immediately. You could have one frigate moving towards the map edge in the meantime. If the defenders can't destroy the battleship in one turn and cause a drive explosion, they won't stand a chance! 3 of these with non-mirved pulsons can inflict 2000+ dmg on the planet. You really have to be careful to not destroy every single living thing on the surface. :D
 
Never seen any planet stand up to Heavy Mount Distrupters. Phasors won't touch them, disrupters bust them eventually. Your own numbers reflect that, 40 - 20 leaves 20 points of damage more or less.

Banks of them on a few dozen ships, and it is busted.
 
I'm not sure where I read it but I think beam weapons do only half the normal damage against planet. So let's say we have a normal mass driver with the base damage of 6. When shooting a planet, damage gets halved to 3, and if the planet has a radiation shield, the damage is always zero because the shield blocks it. With this math, normal disruptors (40dmg) do zero damage against barrier shields (20 dmg blocked). I can't test those right now, but it fits my experiences.

I'm not sure, but I think you need to use a heavy mount version of any weapon to damage a planet. Also, planets have something like a base of 3-5 natural shielding that is subtracted from the damage figures. This is without any added shields such as radiation or barrier. The shields themselves subtract 5-radiation, 10-flux & 20-barrier. It seems to me that heavy beams don't do the heavy amount of damage against a planet and also, it is their regular mount rating that is used to determine if they are able to do any damage at all. In past games when attacking planets, I've noticed that heavy weapons I've used consistently failed to damage the planet, yet their damage should of registered some effect since it was above the protection rating. But their regular mount damage was less than the amount required to get through the planet's shield protection.

For example in one game I had battleships with Hv graviton beams (4.5-22.5 dmg). When attacking planet with a radiation shield, they did only 0-5 damage which is like... nothing. Btw, graviton beams are quite good because they can even punch through heavy armor. The 'extra structural damage' is nearly equal to the normal damage. So you need to only shoot away one third of the 'heavy' armor, and the ships blow up because structure points dropped to zero.

Do graviton beams destroy structure through hard shields? I've not seen much damage to ships using this weapon. I've gotten better results using mass drivers (w. armor piecing) since they destroy both structure and systems. But hard shields negate the armor piercing special. I tend to use the gravitons against planets or when against ships, to punch a hole in the shields so the ap mass drivers (or later gauss or ion pulse) can fry the internals. All of these earlier beams are not very good against planets, as you mention, they barely surmount the shielding.

The problem with bombs is that to use them you have to move into the point blank range, while the defenders keep shooting at your ships. In the worst case, the planet has a stellar converter shooting a couple of ships which is, umm... bad. Also bombs can only be used against one type of target which wastes space from other weapons.

By the time you get stellar converters, the time for bombs has long passed. It's early to mid game I use bombs. Late game, most of the beam weapons are more than enough to knock out planet defenses. Faced with ground batteries, I try to do as much damage as I can before they get a chance to fire. If I can take them out on the 1st turn, that is ideal. So beams are the 1st choice where practical. But that ability only comes later in the game. I don't usually add bombs to ships other than specialist planet attack ships which are intended to go after the planet defenses at the outset. Early on these ships are armed mostly with bombs and with 1 or 2 anti-missile/fighter beams. Later, I will add torpedoes and a maybe few mid level beams. By the time I get plasma or disruptors, those designs become obsolete, since my regular beam warships are then adequate to see off any planet defenses. The time taken to get bombs to planet is not so great as you would think. It takes 3 turns at most to reach a planet and bomb it. If you have transporters, it only takes 2 turns to reach the planet. Missiles take 2 turns to reach the planet at a minimum. So the time till you start doing damage is almost the same between bombs and missiles. Protecting the ships in their run up to the planet is no real problem. Give them heavy armor or reinforced hull, or both, if you want. Better yet, neutralize the weapons that will target them before they shoot. The bomb ships are only 1 type of several I use early game. While the bomb ships make their runs, the other types take out the other side's ships and orbitals, along with the defensive missile volleys and fighter swarms. If the bomb ships are 1 size smaller than the main attack ships, the AI's heavy beams tend to concentrate on the larger ships. The bomb ships might number 2-4 out of an attack fleet of 2 dozen ships or more. One other advantage of bombs is they are cheap and you can pack a lot more of them than you can missiles. They also don't run out of ammunition during a normal battle like missiles do.

In the early to mid game, I think missile boats are the best way to bust planet defenses, like this:

Missile Battleship
Systems: Battle pods, Fast missile racks, Reinforced hull if armor is not good
All the space filled with 2x ARM FST (maybe ECM, MIRV) missiles

When the battle begins, move forward, unload the salvo on the planet/battlestation, and retreat immediately. You could have one frigate moving towards the map edge in the meantime. If the defenders can't destroy the battleship in one turn and cause a drive explosion, they won't stand a chance! 3 of these with non-mirved pulsons can inflict 2000+ dmg on the planet. You really have to be careful to not destroy every single living thing on the surface. :D

That's one of the main reasons I stopped relying upon missiles to take down planet defenses. Overkill. It's easy to over do it and wind up with a glowing rock. I like to try and take the planet as intact as possible. That way I don't have to wait 50-100 turns while it builds back up from scratch. When I first started playing the game, I used missiles extensively, and got a lot of glowing rocks, but now I only sparingly use them. Early game I rely more upon interceptors against other ships, as they are harder to kill and do more damage than missiles. Against planets, I prefer using bombs, as I explained above. Later game, I use mostly beams. The time delay of missiles (or torpedoes) I find makes them much less useful against ships than beams, when I do not want to feel the other side's first beam strike. Especially if they are par or higher in tech. I want their ships neutralized before they shoot, not after.

It isn't till mid game I usually build any ships of battleship or larger. They take too long to build and I have too few planets capable of the industry to build them. They take about 20 turns to build at that time. Early game, I usually only have 1 or 2 planets even capable of building cruiser size in a reasonable time frame. Even these can take as long as 10 turns to make. I look at a rough average of 6 turns building time as a reasonable building time for a ship and scale a planet's industrial capacity to the ship size. Also, these high industry planets are usually needed for colony ships, not warships. Most of my planets still don't have orbitals and are limited to destroyer and smaller, of those that can yet build any ships at all. You'd be amazed what a swarm of destroyers armed with a couple of interceptors and 1 or 2 nuclear missiles can do. Just 6 of these took out a space crystal in a current game and they suffered no casualties (I need to mod the monster's armament suites - if I can find out how it's done - they are too easy to destroy). Nice thing about fighter armed ships is you can fire off the fighters on the 1st turn and then retreat the ships out of harms way. If you are defending a planet with an orbital or base, you can retreat them off the battle map entirely, and let their fighters work their magic after they're gone. In the early game when most of my planets are still developing, I find a destroyer is about all they can reasonably build, so I build swarms of destroyers.

Ultimately, what you use, and how how you use it, depends on what you got to use to begin with. If you're not playing a creative race, you may not get half of the weapon tech, and will have to make the best of what little you got.

Just remembered there is one special called sub-space teleporter you can get late game that makes bombs useful again at that stage. Since it teleports the ship up to 20 squares, a ship armed with bombs and teleporters can start damaging a planet the very first turn. Since the damage to ship space ratio of the last bombs is so obscene late game, 1 ship can practically take out all the planet's defensive batteries. I'd forgotten how late game I used cruisers armed with these sub-space teleporters, transporters, a battery of anti-personnel beams and a couple enveloping heavy plasma to wipe shields, to take down late game titans and doom stars in the 1st turn before these had a chance to fire anything. If I had these cruisers in numbers equal to the number of opposing capital ships, the latter never even got a change to fire. If not, I just captured the most powerful ones and used the rest of my fleet to annihilate the rest.
 
I'm not sure, but I think you need to use a heavy mount version of any weapon to damage a planet. Also, planets have something like a base of 3-5 natural shielding that is subtracted from the damage figures. This is without any added shields such as radiation or barrier.
I'm almost sure heavy mount isn't required but the 3-5 point substraction can be possible.

The shields themselves subtract 5-radiation, 10-flux & 20-barrier. It seems to me that heavy beams don't do the heavy amount of damage against a planet and also, it is their regular mount rating that is used to determine if they are able to do any damage at all. In past games when attacking planets, I've noticed that heavy weapons I've used consistently failed to damage the planet, yet their damage should of registered some effect since it was above the protection rating. But their regular mount damage was less than the amount required to get through the planet's shield protection.
I don't get why would the regular mount determine the Hv damage? Is it some kind of bug or have you tested it? I think the main point in using Hv is that the higher damage base helps punch through shield damage thresholds etc.

Do graviton beams destroy structure through hard shields? I've not seen much damage to ships using this weapon. I've gotten better results using mass drivers (w. armor piecing) since they destroy both structure and systems. But hard shields negate the armor piercing special. I tend to use the gravitons against planets or when against ships, to punch a hole in the shields so the ap mass drivers (or later gauss or ion pulse) can fry the internals. All of these earlier beams are not very good against planets, as you mention, they barely surmount the shielding.
No I don't think graviton beams are shield piercing. But the AI rarely seems to have good shields, and even more rarely the hard shields system. And to my knowledge, hard shields negate the shield piercing special, e.g. SP phasors. Heavy armor is supposed the negate the armor piercing ability, but graviton beam is somehow an exception to this.

The time taken to get bombs to planet is not so great as you would think. It takes 3 turns at most to reach a planet and bomb it. If you have transporters, it only takes 2 turns to reach the planet. Missiles take 2 turns to reach the planet at a minimum. So the time till you start doing damage is almost the same between bombs and missiles. Protecting the ships in their run up to the planet is no real problem. Give them heavy armor or reinforced hull, or both, if you want. Better yet, neutralize the weapons that will target them before they shoot.
But the catch is that missile boats can retreat immediately after firing their salvo. What can't be seen can't be attacked.

It isn't till mid game I usually build any ships of battleship or larger. They take too long to build and I have too few planets capable of the industry to build them. They take about 20 turns to build at that time. Early game, I usually only have 1 or 2 planets even capable of building cruiser size in a reasonable time frame. Even these can take as long as 10 turns to make. I look at a rough average of 6 turns building time as a reasonable building time for a ship and scale a planet's industrial capacity to the ship size. Also, these high industry planets are usually needed for colony ships, not warships. Most of my planets still don't have orbitals and are limited to destroyer and smaller, of those that can yet build any ships at all. You'd be amazed what a swarm of destroyers armed with a couple of interceptors and 1 or 2 nuclear missiles can do. Just 6 of these took out a space crystal in a current game and they suffered no casualties (I need to mod the monster's armament suites - if I can find out how it's done - they are too easy to destroy).
Sure, battleships cost a lot in the early game, but by refitting them they stay useful for the whole game. This retains the crew experience level which is kinda critical. Small ships become obsolete by the mid game, or at least one will take constantly losses.

Maybe you could elaborate on the settings a little more? What's your timeframe of building up the fleet in large or huge, average tech, impossible galaxy?

Just remembered there is one special called sub-space teleporter you can get late game that makes bombs useful again at that stage. Since it teleports the ship up to 20 squares, a ship armed with bombs and teleporters can start damaging a planet the very first turn. Since the damage to ship space ratio of the last bombs is so obscene late game, 1 ship can practically take out all the planet's defensive batteries. I'd forgotten how late game I used cruisers armed with these sub-space teleporters, transporters, a battery of anti-personnel beams and a couple enveloping heavy plasma to wipe shields, to take down late game titans and doom stars in the 1st turn before these had a chance to fire anything. If I had these cruisers in numbers equal to the number of opposing capital ships, the latter never even got a change to fire. If not, I just captured the most powerful ones and used the rest of my fleet to annihilate the rest.
The AI is toast anyway by the time I get sub-space teleporter or similar. In the best battle I can remember, I had 4 titans equipped with beams, the teleporter, and xentronium armor against roughly 48 battleships plus some smaller ones, all with adamantium armor. All of the AI fleet was destroyed, with zero losses for me. I didn't use time warp facilitators or phasing cloaks either.
 
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