Radar Towers and Outposts

[Trade-peror]

Two new features of Conquests are radar towers and outposts, but I don't really see too much difference in gameplay.

Radar towers seem mostly to be just another item on the list of structures to defend the homeland--along with forts and barricades. Radar towers, however, can also give attacking units an advantage, which seems interesting, but is actually limited since a worker gets used up, they can only be built in your own territory, and their range is only two squares. What are some better strategies and uses for radar towers?

Outposts seem even more irrelevant. They have the ability to see two squares normally and three squares on a mountain, I think, but that seems a generally useless ability since I can easily use explorers or scouts, and without having to lose a worker for building such a structure. Are there any better uses or strategies for using outposts?

 

[lbhhh]

Outposts and radar towers actually came with PTW, so I've been playing with them for a long while now. In essence what you say in your post is about right. The only thing I'd add about outposts is that they can be useful in preventing barbarian villages from popping up in areas you haven't settled yet. Besides that, their usage is pretty limited. OTOH, radar towers are a must. Their defense bonus is nice but I find the offensive bonus is a huge boost to any counterattack within your territory.

 

[warpstorm]

Outposts usually aren't worth wasting a worker on, but Radar Towers are great. A 25% bonus on attack and defense within it's radius is not to be overlooked.

 

[silver 2039]

Yeah that's why the Ai's love radar towers. They'll dump them all over their territory. Really annoying.

 

[Captain Murphy]

Thankfully, the AI rarely guards radar towers with more than one unit. A couple of marauding tanks can usually take out the towers guarding any particular city.

 

[Hooray]

Originally posted by Captain Murphy
Thankfully, the AI rarely guards radar towers with more than one unit. A couple of marauding tanks can usually take out the towers guarding any particular city.

Yeah, and often they'll guard them with leftover obseleted units.

Outposts are unfortunately worthless. If the range were increased, I might consider using them, but as they are there's just not enough benefit to waste a worker on.

I rarely build Radar Towers just because I always forget about them. I do realize their worth, though.
The best use of Radar Towers I've seen from other players is using them in combination with combat settlers. Put a city right next to an enemy city, build a radar tower, then attack with your units who now have an attack bonus.

 

[LeroyJr]

I generally only build radar towers when under attack or on my border cities. I generally have so many of my own workers I don't even use the crappy captured ones so use them to build radar and colonize some captured luxury when my borders have yet to expand after a war.

Once the useless captured workers have done what they need to do I generally fortify the whole works of them on a mountain outside my capital (so I can remember where they are). When a war starts I send them around and slap down radar where ever I need it. Radar is good when you are attacking a city two tiles in with your modern armor. You end up with a stack of injured units right outside the city when you take it. A healthy unit and radar defense often deters the AI from attacking the stack and you can move them to a city with barracks on the next turn.

I really love capturing a worker in a city and turning around and promptly making a radar defense out of it to really stick it to my opponent.

 

[kokoras]

The range of Radar sould be higher.Attack and Defence bonus are ok,but the use of radars isn't exactly this one.So having to build a radar right beside the borders,on a hill or mountain for beeing able to see one or two squares into foreignt territory is rediculus.

 

[Speedo]

Radar towers are a must if you're trying to hold a defensive line. Outposts are just useless IMO.

 

[metalhead]

I use outposts in the later eras when there is a mountain on the border between me and a neighbor, as it usually allows me to see what is defending their border city/radar tower. It's a good way to keep track of the AI's tech progress without constantly clicking on diplomacy or sending in explorers to check. Plus, if a war breaks out, you can see and deal with SoDs earlier, if they aren't fully railroaded yet.

 

[Commander Bello]

I cannot agree with the statement that outposts are of no value.
Especially on huge archipelago maps, you often find large areas of tundra, where you wouldn't like to settle. So, these areas are only slowly covered (if at all) by your borders, and for that, are grey areas on your map.
Now, put some outposts in there (preferrably on hills/mountains) and a good portion of surprise is gone.
About radar towers:
A line of barricades, garrisoned with artillery and infantry (later with Flak, of course), and given the bonus of strategically placed radar towers will secure certain frontlines against almost any threat, thus giving you the strategic freedom to move on somewhere else...
Both items are very valuable in my eyes (especially, since they can be built with slave workers..)

[edit] Posting#600 So I am a King now...

 

[Trade-peror]

Interesting. With vast expanses of worthless terrain, I tend to settle there anyway, since generally there is some way to improve it eventually and there might be strategic resources there inthe future. But otherwise I see how outposts could be better.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by Trade-peror
Interesting. With vast expanses of worthless terrain, I tend to settle there anyway, since generally there is some way to improve it eventually and there might be strategic resources there inthe future. But otherwise I see how outposts could be better.

About that "tundra settling" (or desert settling)...

Often, it may be counter-productive, since those areas are hard to be made really productive. Your city size will be very limited especially in tundra regions, since you will not find tiles with more than two food (coastal/sea tiles, sometimes a forest with game). So, your cities in those areas will stay small, but add to the corruption calculations harming your vast empire...

This often holds me from settling in there (as long, as I can manage [and are willing] to keep the other civs out of it). The ressources may be secured by the means of colonies, then.

So, a city or two at the coast may be fine, but no need to put them into the middle of the tundra, as far as I see it.

 

[Trade-peror]

That's quite a valid point. I never had any original intentions of actually making those cities productive anyway, it was more to deny the land to the AI. However, I see how that could do more harm than good due to corruption calculations.

As for deserts, the Agricultural trait in Conquests alleviates some of the barrenness of the terrain (irrigation will generate 2 food), allowing some fairly large cities, but not much can be done about food production in the tundra. Therefore, outposts would be the solution.

However, unless I am mistaken, outposts can be "destroyed" by the AI when it decides to build a city right next to one, or when its cultural borders encompasses the outpost's location. Considering the almost illogically land-hungry AI, how would one prevent them from settling in the tundra areas, unproductive as those regions are?

 

[bonscott]

I *always* settle in tundra. Lots of oil and rubber in them thar ice fields! The AI knows it. So you should beat them to it.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by Trade-peror
[...]
However, unless I am mistaken, outposts can be "destroyed" by the AI when it decides to build a city right next to one, or when its cultural borders encompasses the outpost's location. Considering the almost illogically land-hungry AI, how would one prevent them from settling in the tundra areas, unproductive as those regions are?

You are right about this, of course. For that, I stated in my previous post, that one or two cities at the coast may be fine, anyway.
If you have already mounted units (mp >1, that is) it may pay off to have 3 or 4 of them in those areas, to prevent the AI from landing their units there.

At least, there is no real reason for putting a city in tundra regions somewhere in-land. (And not into desert regions, unless you are agricultural and/or have railroads).
Again, as long as you may prevent the AI from settling there. Strategic and luxury ressources may be got from the colonies easier and with less impact to your overall corruption.

 

[Stefanskantine]

Ever play multiplayer on an archipelago? Outposts can be employed to stop you from landing (moving onto one is like an attack in the game) in that most irritating of strategies, the seawall defense...

 

[Endureth]

Don't forget that outposts reveal the fog of war which serves a very important purpose. No barbarians will pop up there. I usually always play with raging barbarians on monarch and preventing barbarians springing up all around me and launching horsemen kill stacks every 5 turns from barbarian uprisings is a life saver.

Outposts serve a purpose but not on the lower difficulties or easier barbarian levels.

-E

 

[Commander Bello]

@Stefanskantine and Endureth:

Both of you are right, of course. Nevertheless, covering a whole coast line with outposts will consume a considerable amount of workers, I think. Most probably, they could be used for something else until rather late in the game.
And as soon as you are playing the Mayans, you are very pleased with lots of Barbarians coming to be converted to workers

 

[Gogf]

Outposts are great when you have a lot of workers, but not the amount of settlers needed to cover an entire continent, if you place them correctly, you can see all the land. This prevents barbarian huts from popping up. This is also cheaper than positioning units there.

@Commander Bello: true, barbarians can sometimes be good, but often some civs don't have the capacity to fight them off, if engaged in a major war. Not really a major thing, but sometimes helpful.