mrmike1949
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2014
- Messages
- 61
seemed to be more camp spawning, and MUCH faster respawns of camps, MUCH FASTER, like 3 or 4 turns
Raging Barbs = easier game for human player?
- Thread starter Smokeybear
- Start date
seemed to be more camp spawning, and MUCH faster respawns of camps, MUCH FASTER, like 3 or 4 turns
I had to laugh at this picture -- hordes of Medieval and Renaissance era Great Musicians, spontaneously spawning from barb camps and wandering across the landscape to perform mean-spirited concert tours.
This could make a funny mod, if the Barbarians could spawn Great Musicians early and constantly, and could win a Culture victory. If they become Influential over everyone, the Metalocalypse begins and the game is over.
Veras
Prince
I just started a game (Songhai, Emperor) with raging barbs after reading this thread. Wow, I didn't remember having a start so fun and challenging like this one. The Honor starter became much more attractive and useful, since I made about 5 or 6 social policies basically killing barbs.
Bad thing is I ended up discovering myself alone on an island, killing all the mood for my desired Domination game.
Bad thing is I ended up discovering myself alone on an island, killing all the mood for my desired Domination game.
Callonia
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 2,180
I once played on prince when BNW first came out so I can learn the new mechanics....
Whoops, I was isolated on the continent for next few thousand years with noone to contact until I entered renaissance era.
There was so many barbarians laying sieges onto my borders. It forced me to expand carefully and place cities in superbly defensive locations.
All my cities was basically coastal with a bunch of them on islands with none deep inland because I would've gotten overrun by the barbarians otherwise. Only when my economy was strong enough to support a large military the barbarians did get defeated with me reaching alot of encampments which has been around since ancient era and squashing them. Only because my kill/death ratio outstripped the raging barbarian's spawn rate in renaissance era and them spawning weak units didn't help them at all.
Although I mounted occasional "Crusades" supported by generals to take out encampments that spawn really near to my borders or on islands near my islands.
It was very unforgettable experience for my first game into BNW.
I would definitely lost that game if it wasn't for the mountains surrounding my coastal capital.
Whoops, I was isolated on the continent for next few thousand years with noone to contact until I entered renaissance era.
There was so many barbarians laying sieges onto my borders. It forced me to expand carefully and place cities in superbly defensive locations.
All my cities was basically coastal with a bunch of them on islands with none deep inland because I would've gotten overrun by the barbarians otherwise. Only when my economy was strong enough to support a large military the barbarians did get defeated with me reaching alot of encampments which has been around since ancient era and squashing them. Only because my kill/death ratio outstripped the raging barbarian's spawn rate in renaissance era and them spawning weak units didn't help them at all.
Although I mounted occasional "Crusades" supported by generals to take out encampments that spawn really near to my borders or on islands near my islands.
It was very unforgettable experience for my first game into BNW.
I would definitely lost that game if it wasn't for the mountains surrounding my coastal capital.
LoneRebel
Emperor
Raging Bards. Could be a good name for a rock band.
The information I'm getting here seems to go both ways. On the one hand Raging Barbs seems to help the human more than the AI because humans fight smarter, but...on the other hand, it's been mentioned that the AI has bonuses against barbs (I presume this means larger than the bonuses human players get) and thus, not only is the AI less vulnerable to barbs to begin with, but the barbs also tend to gravitate towards easier targets, meaning the human player.
So how large are the AI anti-barb bonuses?
EDIT: So I just checked the Civ5 difficulties page on this very website. It doesn't seem to be updated to the new AI default difficulty they use as of BNW, but I guess the values for the player should be unchanged. And it seems that not only do the AI bonuses against barbarians increase the higher the difficulty is, but the human's own bonuses against barbarians decrease with higher difficulty, thus making Raging Barbs on Deity probably a bad idea for the human.
Human players get a 33% bonus against barbs on Prince. That bonus goes down to 0% on Deity.
AIs get a consistent 60% bonus against barbs from Prince onwards, almost twice the human's bonus on Prince. Not sure if this bonus also stacks with the 50% bonus the AI gets from playing on Chieftain (pre-BNW).
The information I'm getting here seems to go both ways. On the one hand Raging Barbs seems to help the human more than the AI because humans fight smarter, but...on the other hand, it's been mentioned that the AI has bonuses against barbs (I presume this means larger than the bonuses human players get) and thus, not only is the AI less vulnerable to barbs to begin with, but the barbs also tend to gravitate towards easier targets, meaning the human player.
So how large are the AI anti-barb bonuses?
EDIT: So I just checked the Civ5 difficulties page on this very website. It doesn't seem to be updated to the new AI default difficulty they use as of BNW, but I guess the values for the player should be unchanged. And it seems that not only do the AI bonuses against barbarians increase the higher the difficulty is, but the human's own bonuses against barbarians decrease with higher difficulty, thus making Raging Barbs on Deity probably a bad idea for the human.
Human players get a 33% bonus against barbs on Prince. That bonus goes down to 0% on Deity.
AIs get a consistent 60% bonus against barbs from Prince onwards, almost twice the human's bonus on Prince. Not sure if this bonus also stacks with the 50% bonus the AI gets from playing on Chieftain (pre-BNW).
troublmaker
Warlord
The only leader I've ever seen it be a problem for is Russia. Everyone else just seems to slay the barb camps with relative ease.
If you want to abuse Songhia's ability don't put on raging barbs use longer time frames as the spawn rate of camps isn't delayed but build times are basically on marathon you can drop one point in honor just to barb hunt and and have 4 cities up by t90 which is comparable to turn 30 on standard speeds.
danaphanous
religious fanatic
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2013
- Messages
- 1,501
Maybe. I never play with it off because it's fun. Makes honor actually kinda useful and is a good early source of exp for 2 levels. Could be screwing up the AI but they've done okay. Someone else said the AI had huge buffs against them on Emperor/Immortal/Deity though which is my level range.
VicRatlhead5199
King
Raging barbs on higher difficulties can be kind of tough without the honor opener since BNW added more classical era barbs. The AI start with more techs so you can see some really early axemen, horsemen and swords, especially the axemen since they start with the wheel. I've seen axemen spawn in the first few turns on deity. Turning on raging barbs on deity almost forces you to research archery first. It does work out well for Bismarck though since you can get your hands on units you don't have the tech for. Just have to research BW for iron and you can have swords pretty early if you're lucky, you know, early enough that swords are actually good anyway.
Anyway I wouldn't say it's always easier, just most of the time.
I've been trying to figure out if Germany and Songhai do better with raging or not. I don't think camps spawn faster but the increased spawn rate makes the honor opener better and you'll almost always take at least the opener with those two. The increased spawn rate does make camps take a little longer to take too which kind of hurts.
Anyway I wouldn't say it's always easier, just most of the time.
I've been trying to figure out if Germany and Songhai do better with raging or not. I don't think camps spawn faster but the increased spawn rate makes the honor opener better and you'll almost always take at least the opener with those two. The increased spawn rate does make camps take a little longer to take too which kind of hurts.
redwings1340
Emperor
It doesn't provide a direct benefit, but does provide a benefit for civs that have early large armies and civs that want to take the honor opener anyway. Bismark and Askia don't get that direct buff of more camps, but when you're off killing barbarians and the other civs are afraid to build workers and explore, that is a nice advantage.
Montezuma II
Chieftain
Why was this bumped?
redwings1340
Emperor
Whenever anyone posts a comment in any thread, that thread is pushed towards the top of page 1. Apparently someone found this post from 2011, felt the need to post, and then it was visible for everyone else to post in too.
