Ragusa

[mihaifx]

This may sound a bit crazy, but hear me out.

So I was browsing Civilopedia reading the historical descriptions of city states when I stumbled on Ragusa.

Spoiler :

Located on the island of Sicily, Ragusa is an Italian city of some 75,000 inhabitants. A port city situated almost directly in the center of the Mediterranean, Ragusa is some 3,500 years old. Originally settled by the native Sicels (ancient Sicilians), over its long history it has been conquered by the Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Arabs, Normans, French, and Spanish. Ragusa was the seat of the Kingdom of Sicily, created in the mid-12th century, and then part of the Kingdom of Two Sicilies under the Bourbons. In 1860 it became part of unified Italy.

Ragusa is constructed on a wide hill. A huge earthquake in 1693 devastated the city, and few of the original buildings survived. The city was largely rebuilt in the 18th century, in the process making it a marvel of Baroque architecture.

Ragusa's economy is based upon agriculture - especially olives - light manufacturing, and tourism. Ragusa is a beautiful city, with numerous museums and churches (including the wonderfully-named ""Church of Purgatory""). The Marina di Ragusa is a famous seaside resort, and the area boasts some of the least crowded beaches in Sicily.

Although not the biggest or most popular city in Sicily, Ragusa is beautiful and rich with culture and history - certainly worth conquering if one has an army or fleet in the area.

I can understand the fine churches and everything, but having an "olive based" agriculture and being steamrolled by a dozens nations seems a little suspicious to qualify it for a Civilization game.
So I decided to search a bit more about this city, and found out there was another city named Ragusa, which is now called Dubrovnik and lies in Croatia.

After pondering for a while, it became clear to me that the Civilopedia description should write about Dubrovnik and not the Italian Ragusa. Mainly because:

- there are already 3 italian cities in the game; and if they were to include yet another italian city, why not choose a more important one: Milano, Napoli, Torino, etc.; choosing a city from another part of the world would make more sense
- Croatian Ragusa called itself Maritime Republic while italian Ragusa is a landlocked city
- Dubrovnik (croatian Ragusa) has a more colorful history IMO, while about the italian one there isn't much to say.
- Dubrovnik was a trully city state (Republic of Ragusa: 1358-1808), while the italian one was NOT

So my theory is that the person who wrote the Civilipedia entry was if not drunk, at least dumb enough to write about Italian Ragusa just because it appears first in Google. I believe it was the intention of the developers to include Dubrovnik in the game.
Sounds crazy, but plausible.

 

[Guru-Meditation]

Plausible theory, sir.

 

[Dünamünde]

This may sound a bit crazy, but hear me out.

So I was browsing Civilopedia reading the historical descriptions of city states when I stumbled on Ragusa.

Spoiler :

Located on the island of Sicily, Ragusa is an Italian city of some 75,000 inhabitants. A port city situated almost directly in the center of the Mediterranean, Ragusa is some 3,500 years old. Originally settled by the native Sicels (ancient Sicilians), over its long history it has been conquered by the Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Arabs, Normans, French, and Spanish. Ragusa was the seat of the Kingdom of Sicily, created in the mid-12th century, and then part of the Kingdom of Two Sicilies under the Bourbons. In 1860 it became part of unified Italy.

Ragusa is constructed on a wide hill. A huge earthquake in 1693 devastated the city, and few of the original buildings survived. The city was largely rebuilt in the 18th century, in the process making it a marvel of Baroque architecture.

Ragusa's economy is based upon agriculture - especially olives - light manufacturing, and tourism. Ragusa is a beautiful city, with numerous museums and churches (including the wonderfully-named ""Church of Purgatory""). The Marina di Ragusa is a famous seaside resort, and the area boasts some of the least crowded beaches in Sicily.

Although not the biggest or most popular city in Sicily, Ragusa is beautiful and rich with culture and history - certainly worth conquering if one has an army or fleet in the area.

I can understand the fine churches and everything, but having an "olive based" agriculture and being steamrolled by a dozens nations seems a little suspicious to qualify it for a Civilization game.
So I decided to search a bit more about this city, and found out there was another city named Ragusa, which is now called Dubrovnik and lies in Croatia.

After pondering for a while, it became clear to me that the Civilopedia description should write about Dubrovnik and not the Italian Ragusa. Mainly because:

- there are already 3 italian cities in the game; and if they were to include yet another italian city, why not choose a more important one: Milano, Napoli, Torino, etc.; choosing a city from another part of the world would make more sense
- Croatian Ragusa called itself Maritime Republic while italian Ragusa is a landlocked city
- Dubrovnik (croatian Ragusa) has a more colorful history IMO, while about the italian one there isn't much to say.
- Dubrovnik was a trully city state (Republic of Ragusa: 1358-1808), while the italian one was NOT

So my theory is that the person who wrote the Civilipedia entry was if not drunk, at least dumb enough to write about Italian Ragusa just because it appears first in Google. I believe it was the intention of the developers to include Dubrovnik in the game.
Sounds crazy, but plausible.

Add your own to the xml file..

 

[Varanid]

i've wondered why the greek city states weren't included; just remove some of them from the greek civ an put 'em as independant CS's. Too many dang Italian

 

[Vordeo]

Wrong Ragusa. The one in the game is probably what is now called Dubrovnik, which used to be a major maritime power and a rival to Venice. It's located in modern day Croatia, lovely place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragusa_(Croatia)

Edit: Wait, just noticed that the bit you posted in spoilers is actually from the Civilopedia? Wow, that's strange. I'd assumed it was the Croatian one.

 

[shadowplay]

I'd assumed it was the Croatian Ragusa for the reasons outlined in the OP. It just makes more sense.

Croatian Ragusa was also featured in Medieval II: Total War

 

[mihaifx]

Edit: Wait, just noticed that the bit you posted in spoilers is actually from the Civilopedia? Wow, that's strange. I'd assumed it was the Croatian one.

Yea, that's from Civilopedia alright. This looks like another major screw up by Fireaxis. I understand they have bad testers, but poor documentation writers as well ?!

 

[SalmonSoil]

It makes sense both ways.
I too thought (and wanted) it to be the Croatian city. However, it seems they wanted to include more Italian city-states. Ragusa was the capital of Sicily, and that essentially finishes off the main Italian city-states (sicily has been kind of important). Someone asked why they didn't use cities like Milan or Napoli. That's because those two cities are essentially included in the Roman city-name list as Mediolaneum and Neapolis, and is probably the reason other Italian city-states wern't included.

 

[mihaifx]

It makes sense both ways.
I too thought (and wanted) it to be the Croatian city. However, it seems they wanted to include more Italian city-states. Ragusa was the capital of Sicily, and that essentially finishes off the main Italian city-states (sicily has been kind of important). Someone asked why they didn't use cities like Milan or Napoli. That's because those two cities are essentially included in the Roman city-name list as Mediolaneum and Neapolis, and is probably the reason other Italian city-states wern't included.

Ok you're probably right about Milan and Napoli, it makes sense. But why another Italian city and why make it maritime and not cultured. From the Civilopedia entry it's clearly entitled to be cultured, while the in-game city is maritime.

 

[LAnkou]

I don't know how they choose all the city states, and I may be ignorant, but some of them were totally unknown to me before playing Civ V: Almaty, Ragusa (from top of my head, but i know there was some others...)

about the "too much italian cities", IIRC, there are only 3, Genoa, Florence and Venice. To me, they were obvious choices like Vienna, Bruxelles, Prague, Copenhague, Montreal, Rio de Janeiro, Kuala Lumpur, Budapest (is there Bucarest too?), Dublin, Le Cap, Seoul...I think i saw Amsterdam too

I disagree with the choice of Stockholm, Helsinki, (I think there is Oslo too), that's too many scandinavian cities...why not Reykjavik?
There is not enough african city states (Carthage/Tunis, Nairobi, Dakar) or latin american (Valparaiso, La Havana, Panama...)
I acknowledge it's harder to find some great non-chinese, non-japanese, non-indian, non-arab, non-siamese, non-persian cities, non-mongolian, asian cities but two comes from the top of my head: Lhassa and Jerusalem...(besides Kuala-Lumpur)

I know Jerusalem is too touchy to get in, and I think there would be much debate about Lhassa being chinese (bet someone will say that Lhassa is in China!!) Finally, I don't think Kaboul is eligible to be a city state...

However, since, Oulan-Bator never was a city state (because mongolia was supposed to be a DLC), i conclude that not having Madrid, Sevilla or Barcelona, means Spain will be a coming DLC!!!

 

[Jharii]

This looks like another major screw up by Fireaxis.

A mistake, sure, but a "major screw up" is a bit overly dramatic.

 

[Tee Kay]

(bet someone will say that Lhassa is in China!!)

Lhasa is in China. That's a geographical fact.

Finally, I don't think Kaboul is eligible to be a city state...

Well, it was the city-state from where Babur launched his Conquest of India.

 

[Reginleif]

City-state selection in Civ V is terrible. Like everything else, they choose to look at everything through a western, nationalistic veiwpoint.

The real shame is the absolute lack of African city-states like Great Zimbabwe, Mombasa, Zanzibar, and Carthage (Although I think they did the latter for a future civ). These were great cities of culture, wealth, and far more sophisticated societies than the European ones, yet because Europe is on top now, they have to add every capital city, of every European nation.

 

[MadRat]

Seriously folks it is a game. If you're felling so insecure about the fact that your home nation isnt in the game then mod it in. Everyone is going to argue with even your own choices. I don't rant when I play a game from japan that all the characters have japanese names or a german game that doesnt have katanas. So of course an US made game will be a bit more euro-centric. That said, I think Firaxis went above and beyond most devs no not only inculde civs from around the world, but to try to put in native languages.

Secondly who cares about the city states types I have seen so many landlocked maritime states in game it isnt funny.

Rat

 

[mihaifx]

A mistake, sure, but a "major screw up" is a bit overly dramatic.

Yes, that was a bit harsh, sorry...it was too early in the morning

Seriously folks it is a game. If you're felling so insecure about the fact that your home nation isnt in the game then mod it in. Everyone is going to argue with even your own choices. I don't rant when I play a game from japan that all the characters have japanese names or a german game that doesnt have katanas. So of course an US made game will be a bit more euro-centric. That said, I think Firaxis went above and beyond most devs no not only inculde civs from around the world, but to try to put in native languages.

Secondly who cares about the city states types I have seen so many landlocked maritime states in game it isnt funny.

Rat

You didn't get the point. If you're playing Pangea it's obvious you'll get some landlocked cities IN THE GAME, but I was talking about the real cities. If you look at the maritime cities list, they are all coastal except this Sicilian Ragusa.

I was pointing out a mistake done by Fireaxis: a design choice that wasn't documented properly...that's all. No complains about any home town here.

To me, they were obvious choices like Vienna, Bruxelles, Prague, Copenhague, Montreal, Rio de Janeiro, Kuala Lumpur, Budapest (is there Bucarest too?), Dublin, Le Cap, Seoul...I think i saw Amsterdam too

All these are in the game except Vienna, Prague, Montreal and Amsterdam. Did you not notice them? I think they may be keeping some, like Amsterdam or Carthage for future DLC releases.

 

[PawelS]

Vienna is in the game.

 

[Vordeo]

All these are in the game except Vienna, Prague, Montreal and Amsterdam. Did you not notice them? I think they may be keeping some, like Amsterdam or Carthage for future DLC releases.

Montreal's an Iroquois city, and Vienna's a cultural CS.

Was actually a bit surprised with Vienna (and Seoul's) inclusions, as I'd expected the HRE and Korea to eventually be added as civs. That said, it'd be pretty easy to edit them out when they release the civs, so it's not definite that those civs won't be in or anything

 

[el_hidalgo]

It doesn't sound crazy at all. They put the wrong Ragusa in the civilopedia, no doubt about it. Which is incredibly lame of them. You'd think someone on the staff of a game called "Civilization" would have noticed this.

 

[shadowplay]

Montreal's an Iroquois city

Montreal is an Iroquois city? Really?! That is so wrong.

 

[Jharii]

Vienna is in the game.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Sausages resource!!!