Random Observation: Players do compete for Artifacts

[Ryika]

Maybe it's obvious to most people, because in the end it's logical - but I actually thought every player could in theory get all the Artifacts themselves, as there isn't any interactions between the Artifacts of different players anyway - but no, all Players use the same Artifact Table and once one player got an Artifact all other Players can't get the same Artifact anymore.

That's quite a bit disappointing and frankly... somewhat silly, especially considering that there's only a total of 24 Artifacts per category. Certainly enough for an 8-Player Game with AIs. But with 12 Players? Or even worse... Multiplayer where everyone tries to get Artifacts. Well, you could run out of Old Earth Artifacts rather easily. Now imagine you wanted to create a Sponsor that has a Chance to get free Artifacts... yeah, I'd say there isn't really room for that.

Unless of course one were to create a "more Artifacts"-Mod.

Anyway. I think all of this could have been prevented by just allowing each player to find every artifact in the table once. With no Artifact-Interactivity and no way to even see what other Players got that would hardly cause any problems, but rather prevent many of the issues mentioned above.

 

[hevans900]

so THIS is why I randomly stop getting artifacts

 

[Lucius_]

If you could get every artifact, then that is potentially 24 OP artifact rewards vs the current 3-4 per game.

 

[EpicWestern]

I think there's a bit of a conflict here between balance and theme and I'm actually OK with the current system. An "artifact" in actual real life is a physical thing which means that if you have it someone else doesn't. If you find one and everyone else can still find the same thing, it loses some of its appeal and flavor. Maybe a compromise would be to give artifacts either a common or legendary status where the former can have multiple copies but the latter doesn't.

I can definitely see how in competitive multiplayer games this gives an unfair advantage to the lucky player who just found the best artifacts, so maybe an option to make them all repeatable would be best.

 

[hevans900]

I think there should be some global dialog (maybe in the diplomacy section?) that lists all the artifacts each sponsor has found - if we want to stick with the exclusivity of them, as it is currently.

 

[Ryika]

If you could get every artifact, then that is potentially 24 OP artifact rewards vs the current 3-4 per game.

That's not a problem, you can just scale down the acquisition of Artifacts so that realistically there's a limit of X Artifacts from Expeditions, even if you go around with 50 explorers.

 

[Evgenij]

I see nothing wrong with idea of having to compete for artifacts with other players. They should however tone down some artifact rewards - right now you can win the game simply by being lucky.

And how do you play a game with 12 AI/Players? I could add only add 1 (me) + 9 (AI) = 10 slots to largest map size.

 

[Greasy Dave]

I've never found the OP 30 percent tech reduction artifact.

Does this mean that if I haven't found it, someone else has and has probably used it? The AI still can't win with it?

 

[Ryika]

I've never found the OP 30 percent tech reduction artifact.

Does this mean that if I haven't found it, someone else has and has probably used it? The AI still can't win with it?

The AI never combines artifacts, they always instantly use them.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I'm almost certain I got more than one of an alien artifact over the course of a game. I did stop getting artifacts at some point, and I had the double chance of getting artifacts artifact's bonus.

 

[Halcyon 7]

Dissappointing to hear the AI will just pop them. I had duplicate artifacts in a recent game; some earth artifact drone but I believe I got one from an expedition and one from a station related quest.

 

[Galgus]

I see no good reason for limits on the artifacts one can find what-so-ever, or anything to be gained from this system in particular.

Competing for expedition sites would be fine, but a hard cap is simply lame.

 

[Red Menace]

what logical reason could prevent you from getting duplicates of artifacts like the family drone or the space suit.
and alien artefacts, you're saying that only one sample of floating dirt exists? floating rocks? tons of that but floating alien dirt? nope. next thing you'll tell me is floating balloons but no Helium.

the only Unique artefacts would be like the Jowler field set or the Messiah Stradivarius. and progenitor artefacts would probably be one-per-faction. it would be best of all artefacts were one-per-faction.

 

[Callonia]

I've never found the OP 30 percent tech reduction artifact.

Does this mean that if I haven't found it, someone else has and has probably used it? The AI still can't win with it?

It does exist I just found it XD but the game is already over and i'm just few settlements away from winning a exodus victory. It could be totally overpowered or just meh depending on when you find it.

 

[MadDjinn]

That's not a problem, you can just scale down the acquisition of Artifacts so that realistically there's a limit of X Artifacts from Expeditions, even if you go around with 50 explorers.

the game already scales it.

Every time you (individually) find an artifact, the % chance to find another one goes down. Ofc, since there are only so many of each type, that % starts getting very low quickly.

I see no reason to want to need to get all of the artifacts. The current system gives benefits, but self limiting over time.

 

[LordHater]

But with 12 Players?

When You add more than 8 players in multiplayer You can see a cut in half message that says something like "unsupported number of players". The message is listed with all the other options like "dont stagger player starts".

 

[Ryika]

the game already scales it.

Every time you (individually) find an artifact, the % chance to find another one goes down. Ofc, since there are only so many of each type, that % starts getting very low quickly.

Well, unless I'm misinterpreting the code that's halve the story, because each time you don't get an Artifact it is increased again:

	if(recieveArtifactRoll <= acquisitionRate) then
		local artifactType : number = ArtifactUtilities.ChooseArtifactFromCategory(playerType, artifactCategoryType);

		-- Artifact type of -1 means the player has acquired all artifacts of that type and won't be getting any more.
		if(artifactType ~= -1) then
			player:AddArtifact(artifactType);
		end
	else
		[B]player:IncreaseArtifactAcquisitionRate(artifactCategoryType);[/B]
	end

And while we don't know what exactly the function does you should be able to, theoretically, get an unlimited amount of Artifacts in a system that upgrades your chances whenever you have a chance to but -don't- find an artifact.

Of course, if we assume that the increase is the same % as the decrease, then yes, after a while you'd hit a point where the chance becomes unrealistically low.

The comment in that part of the code is very interesting btw, because it sounds like players didn't compete for Artifacts.

I see no reason to want to need to get all of the artifacts. The current system gives benefits, but self limiting over time.

I think you're arguing both sides here. If the system is already self-limiting by acquisition rate, then my argument that making players compete is not required makes perfect sense, as a system that did not make players compete for artifacts would not change anything for the standard-scenario. Players would STILL be restricted by acquisition rate (and ultimately the number of sites available).

However, I think I've given quite some examples of non-standard situations where it causes problems. It just doesn't make sense to me:

- Competing with other players? You don't know what the AI already got so you can't plan with that in mind, you - should - not reach the point where there are no artifacts left AND there's no trade between artifacts.

- Not competing with other players? The same as above, just that the system still works if you use mods that increase the artifact rate, a high number of AIs, a large map etc.

It just seems artificial and either not thought through OR maybe they originally planned to have artifact-interactions between players. Then I could see it make sense.