Random tips/thougths for deity/huge/snail+ dif on C2C

[MaxEd]

In short this thread is to discuss general tactics and ideas about deity/long games (snail/eternity) and on HUGE, also i like to add the more difficulty to the game as i can, so im going to add some tips about difficult options:
- First and better tip i can give about this game style, be patient and play windowed.
- Second is more a comment than a tip, be ready to have your a$$ beaten from the very very begining, even from the moment you settle your first city the AI already have not 1 but 2 settlers plus some other units...and they are like 10 techs ahead
- Dont be shy and use ragingbarbarians, its not so hard as it sounds, they are more like anoying bugs when you get used to it
- An interesting option to have and abuse early on the game is barbariancivs+assimilation, you are going to capture their citys anyway (you really need to expand to win, and no, you shouldnt wait even for tribalism)
- multi prod and research, i recommend, it feels unrealistic to be limited to a simple turn if there is spare hammers
- advanced economy and revolutions, i just turn em on, if you go for deity you should already know how to handle this layer of micromanagement
- realist culture spread in fact helps you, you get patches of forests and hills between your cities for long time, this gives you tons of animals to herd or enclose
- modern corporations, guilds, you need any advantage you can get, keep in mind that the AI does use em too afaik
- dont use flexible dificulty, im not sure how that mod works but the disadvantage against you is so big at the begining that it drops and drops and drops and drops untils there is no fun
- "no vassals", really, no, unless they fix the vassals system its just...NO (hits in the head with a rolled newspaper) BAD BOY
- unlimited wonders, another arbitrary limit and anyway it means near to nothing until renaisance at least...
- techdifussion: i have it on for "realism" but im not completelly sure about this one...
- Store subdued animals, really, dont chop em unless you really really cant maintain em anymore...and even there try not to chop those that create herds...
- for maps imo perfectmongoose create to much polar terrain even on tropical so i tend to use perfectworld2

Im in a new deity/huge/snail right now using bismark, ill add some more comments...maybe...

Opinions, tips?

EDIT: and interesting sub-topic is to analize leader traits usefull for this game style, i have the feeling that scientific is pretty much needed but i can be corrected...

 

[zeinul]

You know what, AI does catch up when industrial-modern ages come. In my current game there are two empires with about 60 cities. And they're mere 3-4 tech behind.

 

[MaxEd]

You know what, AI does catch up when industrial-modern ages come. In my current game there are two empires with about 60 cities. And they're mere 3-4 tech behind.

I think that you didnt note that i talk about deity dificulty where the AI starts way ahead...or maybe i understood wrongly your comment?

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

I agree with and use about all of the OP's ideas, but here are my thoughts on saving subdued animals:

1. I do select the Myth in the capital instead of saving for the herd. At Deity every beaker counts.
2. If I get a subdued horse with no nearby horse resources, that is placed under lock and key until I can produce the horse herd in the military city, I love the Riding School; see my post in the GP thread about mobility.

"Valuable" animals are saved until used, regardless of time before use, either tech unlock or new city build/conquer:
3. Any herdable animal. This includes crocs or penguins that can create beaker sea myths on coastal cities.
4. Giraffes since I need carnivals to raise happiness.
5. A few enclosures give +XP to Hunters and I save these until Trade but only in the military city.
6. anything that builds Myth of the Rhino for the +1 income. Just dulls the initial maintenance hit.
7. Snakes for the pit and charmer. 2 beakers and 1 happiness
8. Turtles for the shell worker. Every beaker helps, and 100 turns of income maintenance cost is offset by 1,000+ turns of the beaker.

"Useful" animals; I save a "city starter" package of these for the next 2 - 3 cities.
9. Governor’s Pets and Menagerie.
10. Master Hunters usually produce +1 happiness from ivory. Useful to exceed civic city limits.
11. a feather worker for the beaker - subdued birds seem common
12. After Trade I'll build a bird enclosure in every city for the +1 happiness since that only needs the Menagerie, which every city has.
13. As many valuables from above that this city can build.
14. After I have Trade I build lots of enclosures for the happiness to exceed civic limits. I have run empires with 12 cities on Chiefdom at Deity level. Also needed the Babel Tower, Inuksuk, religion and temples to get that.

If am near to conquering a large city the "city starter" package is at the closest border and includes as many enclosures and happiness animal buildings as I can.

I save subdued wolfs to spot enemy hidden units instead of building dog units. The wolf does just as good in spotting and is 2 MP, and any attack is done with a military unit, not the spotter.

If none of that exists then I butcher immediately. This is great for the early capital as it speeds growth and saves maintenance costs.

I use the unit rename function to remember what each saved subdued animal is to be saved for, since I can have up to 100 at some times waiting for a tech unlock. examples: "New_city_1 Feathers", "New_city_3 Pets"

 

[MaxEd]

Yea and lets not forget that animals cant attack but some can DEFEND pretty well, there are bears and elephants with strengh 5 and even the wolverine have strengh 3, wich 90% of the time if its sleeping on a city can kill those anoying homo neanderthalensis...(damn homos....oooops...lol, jk jk)

 

[Sgtslick]

Your best friend on deity is trade. Sell everything. I use advanced diplomacy but turn off military unit trading and worker trading coz its too easy to abuse. Tech brokering off. One of the best ways to catch up is always get any/all contacts you can. Get Currency asap. From here the AI will sell techs for like $300- a bargain when it takes you like 15 turns+ for tech. If you get in a situation where you have a bunch of contacts and an AI is ahead of you in tech but with no contacts, trade ALL your contacts to them b4 someone else does! You will get 1-5 techs outta them for it! Also secure Horses, copper, iron, obsidian, salt. Even if I only have 1 obsidian or 1 salt or 1 iron etc, its worth it to trade it for tech. Giving iron for 30 turns or whatever it is and in return you can get like $1500 and 3 techs for example.. its an excelent trade. Just plan ahead and build your iron units b4 you trade it.

On another note, don't let the AI steal any of your land, even if it means building crappy cities with high maintenance + unhappiness its worth it so you deny them coming over on ships etc. Its alot easier to defend in choke points with seige weapons and forts than defending multiple fronts with open terrain. Thats why these crappy cities are important as part of a long term strategy.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Could you guys re-post your tips in this thread?

C2C Tips and Tricks
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=429387

Thanks!

 

[zeinul]

I think that you didnt note that i talk about deity dificulty where the AI starts way ahead...or maybe i understood wrongly your comment?

My game goes like this:
I'm behind 10 techs
Once I get currency I buy everything I can. And try to get helenism first.
In middle ages you are No1 now. I expand conquering neighbors. By the Renaissance I'm like 10-20 techs ahead.
I don't build encyclopedia, so one of those AI's could get it. Now, by the modern ages you are still N1. I have 3-4 generals with stacks of 20-30 army. Just to fend off any attacker. I don't expand when I hit 35-40 cities. It gets boring when you get to middle ages. I'm thinking about starting a game without generals, because they make your army of 5 immortal.

 

[Sgtslick]

yes i don't use Great Commanders for this reason, plus AI is sh1t at using them. I think no tech trading at all could be a good way to make the game more difficult and would mean espionage is more important. I would recommend speeding up tech research tho if you do turn off tech trading or else you may find it a bit slow/boring.

 

[MaxEd]

My game goes like this:
I'm behind 10 techs
Once I get currency I buy everything I can. And try to get helenism first.
In middle ages you are No1 now. I expand conquering neighbors. By the Renaissance I'm like 10-20 techs ahead.
I don't build encyclopedia, so one of those AI's could get it. Now, by the modern ages you are still N1. I have 3-4 generals with stacks of 20-30 army. Just to fend off any attacker. I don't expand when I hit 35-40 cities. It gets boring when you get to middle ages. I'm thinking about starting a game without generals, because they make your army of 5 immortal.

Im not sure but the description still feels like as if you dont talk about deity difficulty...i can be wrong...
And out of curiosity, why helenism and not budhism?
For that "Pankration" free promotion? is it good enough to outweight the extra research?

 

[MaXimillionZero]

Im not sure but the description still feels like as if you dont talk about deity difficulty...i can be wrong...
And out of curiosity, why helenism and not budhism?
For that "Pankration" free promotion? is it good enough to outweight the extra research?

Hellenism gives more research, since its shrine gives research instead of gold, which has far more +% modifiers available for it. AND it give the +100% war weariness modifier for enemies as an extra bonus.

 

[zeinul]

Im not sure but the description still feels like as if you dont talk about deity difficulty...i can be wrong...
And out of curiosity, why helenism and not budhism?
For that "Pankration" free promotion? is it good enough to outweight the extra research?

IDK, I just like it. Plus it has some neat religious wonders. Buddhism is usually founded by some AI before I get to currency.

 

[Astax]

I can strongly agree with the vassal system being terrible. But it was terrible in BTS, so it's no fault of the mod. In any vassal situation, you are just stuck with a land hog that is effectively useless militarily, unless you give it all techs and units. And if you do, your payout for this is they grab land that you could have grabbed from your enemies, and become independent again... this is just plain silly I just don't see any way to make vassals even remotely fun with the way the game engine functions.