RAT-02- Deity

[ThERat]

welcome back Shevek,

in fact since I didn't know when you are back, I put you in the roster after myself and put in skipped.
we did not get a got it from dl123654, since you are in UK, you could actually play your turns and then let dl123654 continue

 

[dl123654]

I'm in no hurry, Shevek can play it.

 

[Shevek]

Great. Got it and will play now.

 

[Shevek]

pre-turn
all looks OK

1. 2510BC
lux to 20% as Trondheim grows
continue exploring

2. 2470BC
exploring

IT
Trondheim granary -> warrior

3. 2430BC
nothing much

IT
Persia builds Colossus

4. 2390BC
nothing

IT
Ottomans are building Oracle
Trondheim warrior -> settler

5. 2350BC
warrior gets police duty in Trondheim, lower lux
Ottomans found Izmit north of us at the cow, bye bye nice spot (for now)

Ottomans have still not picked up IW, all AIs are broke apart from Babylon (21g) and Ottos (62g), no trades viable

IT
Roman are building Pyramids
Bergen barracks -> warrior (they are still stuck at 1 pop and need to grow)

6. 2310BC
continue exploring, nothing exciting

IT
Babylon has finished Collosus

7. 2270BC
give Bergen cow for 1 turn as Trondheim will grow next turn either way

IT
Zulus are building Oracle
barb approaching from north

8. 2230BC
meet China, we are up CB and alpha
sell CB for all their gold (35g)
Persia has HBR
Mysticism and alpha does not get it so I wait with trade
Trondheim grows, lux to 20%, switch cow back

IT
barb moves back into swamps

9. 2190BC
Bergen gets cow for 1 turn

IT
Trondheim settler -> rax (pop is down to 2 and it needs growing) but can be vetoed
Bergen warrior -> warrior

10. 2150BC
lux to 0%
Babylon has now writing and Persia is up HBR

I leave the settler (Trondheim) and warrior (Bergen, escort) unmoved for the next player to decide where to go
I was thinking of SW of the iron to catch this
Please check happiness when moving the warrior out, the slider might have to go up
Bergen can keep the cow for 2 turns as Trondheim does not grow faster with it, it should go back after Trondheim grows

We will have quite a problem to keep up with settling as our cities grow so slowly. Maybe we should plan on military action quite early?

 

[ThERat]

I had a very quick look at the save, the landmasses look odd, and there is pretty much land to the east for us to expand. but that's all behind that thick jungle.
agree that our cities grow slow, lucky we have iron and Ottoman have no UU early on
we should build up military soon and hit them once they come too close. there is also a horse SW so maybe we can try and expand there. agree also with the settler spot SW of iron at the river so we can irrigate south later on.

dl123654, you can grab it

 

[dl123654]

Got it will play tomorrow.

 

[ThERat]

@dl123654
any news

 

[dl123654]

Had a few computer problems:

Preturn 2150BC:
Good

Turn 3 2030BC:
Bergen Warrior->Settler
Found Copenhagen in West Plains
Trondheim Warrior->Settler

Turn 4 1990BC:
See Dark Blue Boarder on America's island, can't contact with boat

Turn 7 1870BC:
Find Babyon
America and Babyon get Writing

Turn 8 1830BC:
Copenhagen Warrior->Temple

Turn 9 1790BC:
Trondheim Settler->Settler

Turn 10 1750BC:
Iron online
Writing->Philosophy (16 turns)

Notes:
Few trades advailable this turn
Should we try for Philosophy or just minimum on Litature?
Next few settlers should block off Ottomans

save

 

[ThERat]

@dl123654
it's ok I also wrote in order to make sure our SG doesn't sit on page 2. that way onedreamer might never find it in case he comes back (somewhere I read 04/01 and elsewhere 08/01, let's see)

this is deity, I think the philo gamble won't succeed, I rather go for Lit and would like to start a pre-build, the GLib would be really nice here. What do you all think?

Roster
ThERat - up
rrau or shevek
Shevek or rrau (time zones would make this the better option) - on deck
dl123654
onedreamer - waiting for return

 

[ThERat]

Pre-Turn
slow growth but 2 settlers due which will be sent west, do some trades
writing to Ottoman for maths and 79g
writing to China for HBR and 13g

1. 1725BC moving

IT Rome demands CB and we are at war, WH is always be good, they are far away

8. found Reykjavik and Oslo

9. found Stockholm

IT america demands 44g, I cave this time. we don't need a dogpile

we need one more settler to get horses, I hope we successfully blocked Ottoman
there is a lot of land to the east behind the jungle, weird map
do we go for a pre-build on GLib?
MM is known but we cant get

next player is Shevek or rrau, whoever can play first

 

[rrau]

got it.......

 

[rrau]

preflight (1500bc)

the map's feeling a bit claustrophobic but otherwise ok.

ibt: Chinese building ToA

turn 1 (1475bc)

zzz

ibt: China asks us to move our troops, agree.

turn 2 (1450bc)

lux to 10%

turn 3 (1425bc)

zzz

ibt: Babylon building Lighthouse

turn 4 (1400bc)

zzz

ibt: Zulu building pyramids

turn 5 (1375bc)

heading a curragh towards what appears to be an island - ending in a sea square

ibt: lost a curragh in treacherous waters

turn 6 (1350bc)

We didn't successfully block the ottomans

ibt: Persia built Pyramids
Babylon built Lighthouse

turn 7 (1325bc)

Ottos built where I was going to put a city. Will head the settler towards the horses.

turn 8 (1300bc)

zzz

turn 9 (1275bc)

zzz

turn 10 (1250bc)

Rome just learned MM. Maybe make peace and get it as part of the deal. We know a couple techs they don't.


Notes:

I've got a palace prebuild going on in Bergen for the Great Library. If we can join a worker, we can probably get the prebuild to complete about the time we learn Literature. (I've got a cit working the iron mountain for the extra sheilds, but it slows growth)

I've got a couple raxes building. We NEED to go to war soon.

 

[Shevek]

Got it and will play tomorrow.
Will look at the save maybe tonight if I am not too late home.

Yes, we should try to get MM quickly. Then we can also settle across the strait. There might be some nice land hidden. And corruption should be low as it is close to our capital anyway.

 

[ThERat]

we should try and squeeze 2 more cities and claim horses. also, opposite is another island which looks empty

Roster
ThERat
rrau - just played
shevek - up
dl123654 - on deck
onedreamer - waiting for a word of hello

 

[Shevek]

Just a quick note to say that I cannot play tonight as planned. I have to share my computer and my partner is needing it today until late. I have a day off tomorrow, though and will definitely play. Apologies.

 

[Shevek]

Pre-turn
make peace with Rome and exchange Math for MM + 7g
MM + math + 363g to China for polytheism
HBR to Babylon for 70g
MM to America for 68g
Math to Xerxes for 40g
MM to Osman for 57g
Yes, the techs I sold are more worth maybe but now all AI apart from China are broke and cannot trade for a while, and Osman cannot buy HBR for the time being

Tech situation
we are no tech down at all
we are up polytheism on everyone apart from China and Rome, we are also up HBR on Osman and CB on Rome
Lux to 20% for Bergen, war happiness having gone

Enter

IT
Mao wants 44g, greedy bastard, but I cave as we might need his custom
Persia is building SoZ
Osman is moving settler-spear towards our horses

1. 1225BC
switch temple in Copenhagen to archer, ready next turn, I want to try to block off the advance of the Otto settler pair and need more units

IT
Copenhagen archer -> settler
Trondheim sword -> sword

2. 1200 BC
put a line of 3 units between Oslo and Copenhagen to block off access to south

IT
settler pair goes back but another pair pops from Izmit

3. 1175 BC
Babylon now has construction, but at monopoly it is by far too expensive, even poly + 507g (all we have) would not get it (not that I would trade it for this price anyway)

IT
Stockholm barracks -> sword

4. 1150 BC
zzzz

5. 1125 BC
juggling units to prevent Osman's settlers intruding on our patch

6. 1100 BC
more of the same

IT
Trondheim sword -> worker

7. 1075 BC
we are fairly rich, good for upgrades, bad for extortion, upgrade vet warrior to sword

IT
Reykjavik worker -> galley
Oslo worker -> harbo(u)r - can be vetoed, but might be good to enable trade

8. 1050 BC
the lands south of the strait turn out to be islands rather than one landmass, there is a promising looking one SE of Trondheim
China and America have aquired CoL and Construction, is it worth trading for now or shall be put all out hopes on the GL??
Leave it for now

IT
Trondheim worker -> sword

9. 1025 BC
found Birka -> warrior
knowledge of CoL and construction is spreading, try to use poly for trading before that too is widely known
Poly gets us CoL straight up from Rome
the only one who lack CoL and have construction are the Ottomans, trade them poly + CoL for contruction and all their gold (35g), they are now broke again and still lack HBR
sell Poly to Babs for 57g (all they have)
upgrade vet warrior to sword in Stockholm and change build from sword to spear
move archer out of Copenhagen to block another Otto settler, lux needs to go up to 20%

10. 1000 BC
archer back INto Copenhagen as settler heads back to Izmit, lux back to 10%

Next turn a settler will be ready in Copenhagen to fill in the last spot in our little corner
Our military is weak against Osman, we have now 4 swords but using them all would empty our towns, so more build-up is required.
Ottomans are still down HBR. But is will be a little while before our horses are connected.
I still think we should get mounted support for our attack.

Here is our tech situation:

 

[dl123654]

Got it, wlll play later

 

[Shevek]

I think we have reached the point where we have to co-ordinate our effords in order to succeed on deity. I have noticed that on my turns I played my own style and did not consider enough overall strategy.

So here are a couple of questions/points that we should discuss and agree upon so that not one player builds up towards one thing and the next does the opposite.

1. It appears to be decided that we are preparing for war.
Who is the first 'victim'?
- Ottomans seems the obvious answer

What is the objective?
- Get some Ottoman cities / space ?
- Destroy Ottomans ?
- get techs / money ? This one is a non-starter with the Ottomans
We should think about what we want to achieve.

What unit numbers and types are needed to achieve objective?
- Bear in mind that Ai gets 12 starting units (IICC)
- I would suggest that we might need at least 12 to 14 swords, 4 to 6 horses for support and dealing with counter attacks, 3 - 4 galleys for faster troop movements

Which towns are going to produce the units?
-We have 7 cities and 1 settler.
- 2 cities have decent shield output but 1 is blocked with GL pre-build.

Should we go first for their core or outlying towns?
- I would go straight for their core and cripple them as much as possible.

I am sure there are more points to discuss.
I am just trying to get some discussion started and to make sure that we all march in the same direction.

 

[ThERat]

thanks Shevek for this. I agree an deity approach needs more discussion.
I don't know whether it is feasible to attack Ottomans
we are lucky as they do not have iron, but I agree 10+ swords and a few horses are needed.
If I look at it, we are actually lucky that most cities are coastal, perfect for our zerks later.
that brings up my question. do we want to attack now and commit all energy to that + GLib, or do we want to wait for our UU and still build some more towns, settle those Island south and east
if we manage to secure GLib, we will get our UU pretty soon with Invention and that is the powerhouse UU itself.
I prefer to build infra and towns for now, make sure we get Glib and then attack once we have zerks
what does the rest think?

btw I am still waiting for onedreamer, but if he does not show up very soon, I will open the slot for someone with deity experience.
any seasoned player interested?

 

[Shevek]

Here are the pro and cons as I see them.

Pro early war with Osman:
- they have no iron (no swords) and do not know HBR (no horsemen), this ideal situation might not last too long
- their best units now will be archers and spears against swords and horses, that is well doable with enough numbers
- we will gain some good towns on the quick
- we could go for a quick war that targets only a few cities and than get peace (Izmit and Kafa spring to mind)
- Swords are much cheaper than Berserks and we should use them now whilst they are effective


Contra early war with Osman:
- we are not out of room to settle, if we prepare for war full blast someone else will settle the still empty lands
- it is easier to settle a spot than to take it later by force
- there is room on the islands in the south and some good spots NE on our island/continent like the dyes
- war preparation will endanger the GL build - directly by attacks, indirectly because we will not have enough resources (workers to improve terrain and to join in) to support the project
- Berserks are not that far off (only 2 required AA techs left to research)
- Berserks are not only very strong (attack 6) they are also amphibious 9But unfortunately also quite expensive)
- we will have more time for preparation
- we probably will be out of despotism and can cash rush some units


I think both strategies are valid if properly executed.
If we go for early war I would strongly recommend to abandon the GL (make the pre-build a courthouse) and use Bergen to produce swords only. Trondheim and Bergen can make 1 sword every 5 turns at the moment. that might get better with terrain improvement and growth. I reckon we will need some 20 turns to get an initial force together.

I tend more to wait for the Berserks. But that is my personal play style and not always successful.

What do you all think?