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Rat44 CCM - Ultimate Challenge

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by ThERat, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    Commando. it's been almost a week for a rather short turn set, are you able to play or do you need skip?
     
  2. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    I'll be playing tonight. Last two days have been hectic but the wife will be gone quilting tonight.
     
  3. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    0 1740 BC

    Germany and Japan both charge the same price for Math, 222 gold and 16 gpt. We buy from Japan since they are closer and a steady supply of gold may keep them off our backs.

    We then sell Math to Greece for 86 gold and 13 gpt.

    We are now at 93 gold and 15 gpt.

    Boston: granary in 1 -> Siege Workshop in 5.

    Make sure we are at peace with everyone before the turn ends.
    [IBT]
    Philadelphia is connected.
    Washington: vTHawk -> vTHawk in 2.

    Great Iron Mine. Forgot about that Small Wonder.

    Mongol scout moves 2S and leaves the USofA.


    1 1700 BC

    Scout moves 1W.

    Workers
    At New York, workers and defenders move 1NW. Workers road, 2 turns because we are IND.
    At Philly, workers and defenders move 1SE, onto BG, to mine and road, 3 turns to mine.
    [IBT]
    Training Chariot in Washington.
    New York: granary -> vTHawk in 4.


    2 1660 BC

    Great Iron Mine cost 50 shields and can only be built in Philadelphia, since Iron must be in the city radius. Philly is netting 2 spt at the moment. After Walls, perhaps.

    Both Canada and Mongols now have 17 cities. Gatineau, Canada, is 5SW of Philadelphia. We still might be able to build in the near by hills.

    Upgrade the Training Chariot.

    Workers
    No change.
    [IBT]
    Washington: vTHawk -> temple in 5.

    3 1620 BC

    Germany and Japan know Code of Laws.

    Chariot goes to New York.

    Workers
    New York stack moves 1NW and roads.
    [IBT]
    Enslaver in washington.

    Germans are building Hammruabi (Code of Laws, 300 shields, courthouse in every city, does not expire).
    Japan is building Hammruabi.

    4 1580 BC

    Japan and Germany both learn Mysticism.

    Greek rWarrior just outside the borders of Philadelphia. We'll let him trespass before we use our Enslaver in Philly.

    Workers
    Mine completed, the Philly workers begin a road, 2 turns.
    [IBT]
    Siege Workshop is built in Boston. A C3C barracks and a source of auto-produced rock throwing units.

    Boston: Siege Workshop -> temple in 10.

    5 1540 BC

    Mongols and Canada both learned Mathematics. Canada learned Iron Working, too. We now have no techs to trade.

    Mongols have a settler pair northish of Boston.

    Greek rHoplite, rWarrioir and settler are 1E-1NE of Philadelphia on a hill. They look like they are heading to where we want to build. We might be able to poach their settler, or at least delay their movement through our lands. Move vWarrior 1NE out of Philly to block the most direct route.

    Move vEnslaver in Washington partway to Philly.

    Workers
    New York stacks moves 1NW, to road.
    [IBT]
    Greek stack moves 1NW, hill to hill.

    New York: vTHawk -> temple in 8.

    Germans are building The Oracle (Mysticism, 300 sheilds, 2 Techs to whoever builds it first).

    6 1500 BC

    We are building 3 temples and 1 walls in 4 cities.

    Enslaver arrives in Philly. Both of them are now in Philly.

    Greek blocker moves 1NW.

    Workers
    Philly workers head to Washington. They outrun their defenders, so both vTHawks leave the capital to protect them.
    [IBT]
    Greek stack moves 1NW again.

    Japan is buiding The Oracle (Mysticism, 300 sheilds, 2 Techs to whoever builds it first).

    7 1460 BC

    Japan, not the Mongols, build Sapporo 3N-1NW of Boston, on the coast. They are now up to 15 cities. We spy another settler pair up near Hiroshima.

    Greece learned Construction.

    Blocking warrior stays put.
    Former Philly worker protecor moves 1W of the Greek stack.
    Other Philly worker protector stays in place on the road.

    This is risky, inviting attacks from Enslavers, but we only need to delay the Greeks a few more turns.

    A 10 gpt trade from us to Japan ends this turn.

    Workers
    Philly workers move 1SW of washington, road in 2.
    New York workers move 1NW, now just outside Boston.
    [IBT]
    Greek settler stack moves 1NW one more time.
    A second Greek settler pair appears 2SE of Philadelphia.

    Washington: temple -> vTHawk in 2.
    Philadelphia: walls -> Great Iron Mine (placeholder) in 17.

    8 1420 BC

    Germany is now at 17 cities.

    rHoplite on hill 1S-1SW of Washington, heading east.

    Workers
    Apprentice in New York. I missed the memo. Upgrade it.
    [IBT]
    Hoplite near Washington is killed by something unseen.

    First Greek stack moves 1NW into America.
    Second, and smaller, Greek stack moves 1S of Philadelphia.
    Three Canadian settler pairs appear.

    Philadelphia has culture expansion.

    Germans are building The Great Library (Literature -> Chivalry, 400 shields, same function as in C3C).

    9 1380 BC

    Japan and Germany know Literature. Next turn Japan will start building The Great Library.

    Redlined vEnslaver 1S-1SW of Washington.
    Canadian settler pair with rSpear 1E-2NE of Boston, near Regina.
    Canadian settler pair with rWarrior 1E-2NE of New York, near Ottawa.
    Canadian settler pair with rWarrior 3NE of Philadephia, near Mississauga.
    Greek settler stack with rHoplite and rWarrior 1E-2SE of Washington, on our soil.
    Greek settler pair with rHoplite 1S of Philadelphia, on our soil.
    Greek settler pair with rArcher 3SE of Philadelphia, in no mans land.

    We leave the redlined Enslaver alone, for now.
    Send Chariot in New York back to Washington, to release vWarrior for worker protection duty.

    vEnslaver retreats from rHoplite at Philly.
    Second one defeats the rHoplite and grabs a Move 2 slave. Only one of them, not two as I would expect.
    We send our new slave towards Washington.
    The Enslaver did Enslave the Hoplite, but that slave shows up the tile our Enslaver attacked from.
    We send this Move 1 slave to Washington, too.

    Our Enslavers are 1/4 and 2/4.

    This is the last turn of sending 1 gpt to Germany.

    Japan is loaded, with 1060 gold.

    Workers
    Philly stack moves 1SW to road.
    New York stack, roading to Boston done, irrigates the tile (2 turns).
    Send new worker to Washington and beyond, protected by Spear from Washington.
    [IBT]
    The redlined enslaver moves 2W out of our sight.

    Washington produces a Clan.
    Washington produces a Training Chariot.

    Washington: vTHawk -> vTHawk in 2.

    Japan is building The Great Library. Who would have guessed that?

    10 1340 BC

    New York goes cranky, so we hire a clown.
    Upgrade the Training Chariot.
    Upgrade the Clan.

    Canadian settler pair is now 2NE of Boston.
    Canadian settler pair is now 2NE of New York.
    Canadian settler pair is now 1N-1NE of Philadelphia.
    Canadian settler pair is now 1NE of Philadelphia.
    Greek settler stack is 1E-1SE of Washington.
    Greek settler pair is 2SE of Philadelphia.

    The Greek settler stack blocks our road from Washington to Philadelphia.

    Both Enslavers heal.

    Leave one vWarrior unmoved.

    Workers
    The Greek settler stack blocks moving our latest slaves into Washington to join with other slaves in the near future.
    Rename the move one slave to Moves One - Beware!.
    Move the newest worker, now 1SW of Washington, 1SW and then 1S, through the workers roading. Shuffle defenders so that each tile has two.
    Move the two newest slaves to 2W of Philadelphia, with some defenders. One starts a road, 9 turns.


    And the save is attached.
     
  4. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    USA Core Area, 1340 BC
    Spoiler :




    Not a lot of action but we do have a lot of traffic. Four Canadian settler pairs are inside our borders along with two Greek settler pairs. The Canadians have the Red circles and the Greeks the Light Blue. The Normal Blue circles are our worker stacks. And the Yellow Dot is where I think our next city is going.

    It looks like we should get this city site. The northern Greek stack was the first one on the scene and we managed to divert it northward. The others are too far away to claim this spot.

    We might want to send our chariot, now 2SW of Washington, to camp on that hill for a turn or so until we get the city built. There is a Greek Warrior in the area and we don't want to wait on him to move out of our way. It is a bit risky for the Chariot, however, due to Enslavers.


    Trades
    Japan and Germany are the tech leaders. Mysticism, Code of Laws, Literature, Construction, Seafaring and Trade. Greece knows Construction and Trade, Canada knows Trade only. The Mongols are a dumb as we are.

    We can buy Code of Laws, Literature and Mysticism for 280 of 284 gold and 11 gpt (CoL and Mysticism) or 16 gpt (Literature). These techs lead to Monarchy. The other techs are too expensive for us. And they all lead to Republic.



    Workers
    We have two slaves 2W of Philadelphia, a Move 2 and a Move 1. The Move 2 just started a road. When the Move 1 joins in, that road will complete in 4 turns.
    One SE of Boston are 2 native workers, irrigating, completes this turn.
    Two SW of Washington we have a stack of 2 Native workers and 2 Move 2 slaves.
    One South of that stack is 1 Native worker.

    On the next turn, outside Washington, the southern most worker will begin to road. The two native workers will move and join him, completeing the road in one turn. On this turn our Settler will cross the river leaving Washington and stop.
    On the following turn, the three native workers will move 1S and start and finish that road. The Settler will be able to move to this tile.
    After that, we can either road the city site in order to build that turn or move the settler onto the hill and build the following turn.

    I'm not sure what to do with the two slaves near Washington. We don't need four stacks of workers; three is enough for now. That means only 6 units for protection instead of 8. But the Greek settler stack needs to get out of the way before we can freely move these slaves to join the others outside of Philly.

    Random Stuff
    We have one geek learning for us, in the capital.

    We have two clowns hired; one in Washington and one in New York.

    One Warrior still needs orders for this turn.

    We built one temple and two more are under construction. Boston's completes in 5 turns; New York's in 4.

    Philadelphia is building The Great Iron Mine (11 turns); it is a placeholder. Slavery might make better sense. Or maybe granary (14 turns).

    Both our Enslavers are in Philadelphia. Both are healing. But with a mere rArcher protecting a Greek settler, the tempation to pounce next turn might be too strong. And if this settler pair disappears, maybe the Greek Warrior near our next city might wander away.

    Our scout is up the coast, looking for a place to trespass Japan quickly.

    Academies can be built.

    Military
    01 Worker
    01 Scout
    07 Warrior
    03 Chariot +2
    02 Enslaver
    04 Northeuropean Workers +1
    01 Northeuropean Settler +1
    06 Native Spears
    04 Tomahawk Warriors +4 (new class)

    Current Units: 29
    Allowed Units: 26
    Support Costs: 6 gpt

    Construction in 31, +25 gpt, 284 gold.

    We had two rounds of comabat; one retreat and one victory. Two Enslaver attacks produced one enslaved worker.

    EDIT:
    Two Enslaver attacks resulted in one victory and that victory produced one enslaved worker.
     
  5. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Nice execution of the elaborate settler-blocking dance. :thumbsup:

    Our builds strategy looks simple now--complete the second and third temples, get Christian Communities established everywhere, train more tomahawk warriors, and attack. We're trying to hit a very narrow window of opportunity in which Canada's huge number of cities will be a weakness rather than a strength, so I don't think we can wait until all our towns have granaries and slavery. If we're lucky we may be able to rush a few of those structures with Leaders.

    Edit: Our one scientist should be employed in New York, which will let Washington work another tile.
     
  6. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    Nice dance :D

    I hope we can establish that 5th city and then start to go after Canada. I will see how far we have progressed before deciding on the attack. Might need another round of preparation.

    Got it
     
  7. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    We build Mesoamerican Stoneheads with this tribe, don't we?
     
  8. Butterball

    Butterball Bear

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    What is Mesoamerican Stoneheads? :confused:
     
  9. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    I don't know, never having played this far before as America. We aren't eligible to build Mesoamerican Christianization, if that's relevant, and the Algonquian people we seem to be based on at this point weren't very meso. Anyway, we'll know soon enough.

    Butterball, in CCM Stoneheads are the religious community/symbol--a cheap way of building early culture--that the Aztecs, Maya, and Incas get.
     
  10. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    No, not Stoneheads....Rock Bands. :D


    Link to video.
     
  11. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    So the USA belong to the American culture group, this civ doesn´t have bloodcult as starting tech (like the mesoamerican civs) but christianity. This means you have to build christian communities.

    This is the mesoamerican perequisite to build their religious buildings and wonders. As told above these relgious perequisites also are a cheap possibility to gain early culture (the other such possibility are national flags or symbols). To build these special religious buildings you must have three common religous buildings of the type "temple". Than you must have a special religious starting building like the mesoamerican stonehead (or one of the religious communities) in each city where you want to build the special religious buildings like basilicas and cathedrals for the christian religion, mosques and great mosques for the islamic religion, and so on.

    These are the religious special perequisites in CCM, that in combination with later techs allow special religious buildings:

     
  12. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    Pre turn

    get mysticism from Germany for 262g and 12 gpt
    get trade from Greece for mysticism and 15gpt, we're almost broke now
    No trade with Canada as we want to strike them soon


    Turn 1 1300BC
    defeat a Canadian settler pair gaining another useful worker, the other enslaver heals

    Turn 2 1260BC
    claim another settler pair with our now elite enslaver, compound the Canadian misery by claiming yet another pair

    IT we lose our exploring scout, Germany establishes a free embassy for us :)
    we get our first catapult
    Portuguese finish Great Lighthouse

    Turn 3 - 1220BC
    road hill to be able to found Atlanta, our 5th city


    Turn 4 - 1180BC
    I pull troop towards our first target Gatineau, we have a roading crew there as well
    take out a Mongol settler pair gaining a slave, get another Canadian pair

    IT Mongol enslavers take out 2 of worker covers, lucky we have another unit covering that stack
    Germany demand all our gold, which I refuse and we're at war. Germany is very far away and we pay them gpt
    I decide it is worth the risk

    Turn 5 - 1140BC
    pull our mini attack stack together at Gatineau, lux is reduced to 20% due to war happiness with Germany :D

    defeat both Mongol enslavers with a chariot


    IT we lose the chariot to yet another enslaver, incredible, fed up with Mongols :mad:

    Turn 6 - 1100BC
    demand Canada from removing their troops and they declare war
    move on to Gatineau taking out a warrior

    IT finally that 3rd Mongol enslaver dies attacking a spear

    Turn 7 - 1060BC
    attack Gatineau, lose a tomahawk but takes the city, use a chariot to clean up 2 warriors around it.
    Income increases to 27gpt

    Turn 8 - 1020BC
    road towards the next target

    Turn 9 - 980BC
    2 Canadian archers show up, take them out with a chariot, also a Greek warrior with our elite enlsaver

    IT a Greek settler pair is taken by a Canadian enslaver whose slave then goes into Victoria itself, nice

    Turn 10 - 940BC
    this is our chance, in a somewhat bold move attack Victoria, take out 2 spears with chariots
    then enslaver takes out an archer and the city is ours




    The situation now:





    We might face the attack of the Canadian enslaver that has to be out there somewhere
    We should be able to produce more defenders soon as well with new York having the slavery
    New towns can also produce reg spears, that's good enough. I expect the Canadian troops to arrive at the front soon too. We have to decide whether to carry on with a longer war or to try and take one or 2 more cities and switch enemies. I would try to be patient and take out their units then attack more cities and gain techs when suing for peace.

    I did not make any more trades as they all seem very expensive. In fact I suggest to switch Atlanta to a boat to explore north. At least that way by sea we're safer. The only tech worthwhile now might be riding for fearsome WE
     
  13. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Certainly an early start to the Canadian war, but great results so far. :thumbsup:

    We may now be into the usual second phase of an early-game war, in which we grind down the enemy's field army rather than moving forward, but I'll see what I can do.

    I've got it.
     
  14. Civinator

    Civinator Blue Lion Supporter

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    I made an upload of the save-file to have a look at the AI turntimes with the experimental settings of the biq used in this game - and I found this: :)


     

    Attached Files:

  15. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    I noticed that chap too


    @NP, sorry the warmonger in me just couldn't resist :D

    I checked and we can get riding from Japan, i would really do that, WE are certainly far better than tomahawks
     
  16. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    Yes, one of CB's annotations. :)


    No problem--I expected nothing else. ;)

    I would be dubious about this as a onefer, since we aren't an elephant civ and it will be hard to justify building many Jumbos at 65 shields when T-warriors are 25 for the same attack factor. But it looks as though we can trade Riding around, so of course I'll do it.
     
  17. Elephantium

    Elephantium Elephants think that people are cute, like puppies

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    Ah, I was confused. I thought the Americans would have the same early religion as the Aztecs, etc. because of the city graphics for the American culture group.

    Thanks for illuminating me on that point :)
     
  18. CommandoBob

    CommandoBob AbstractArt

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    What can I say? I'm deathly afraid of treating the Move 1s like the Move 2s. :lol:
     
  19. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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  20. Northern Pike

    Northern Pike Deity

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    940 (0): We buy Riding from Japan for 122 gold and 25 gpt, then send it to Greece for Philosophy and 283 gold--we can't get the Greeks to throw in another tech, but this is full value. Finally we send Philosophy, Riding, 340 gold, and 9 gpt to the Mongols for Construction and Code of Laws. We're left completely tapped out, but it's clearly worth it. Among other things, it's important to get our fifty-turn drive to Religion started as a backup plan, since that tech is so expensive in CCM.

    We put Washington's last specialist to work in the fields, which our abundant war happiness makes possible.

    The Greek trireme is a fine graphic I hadn't seen before.

    The slaver on top of our stack at Victoria, though redlined, not only defeats an attacking slaver but enslaves it (1-0).

    Washington Christian Community --> Jumbo, New York slavery --> CC, Boston native spearman (henceforth just spearman) --> CC, Philadelphia CC --> spearman. Boston also auto-produces a catapult.

    The French, unknown to us, complete Hammurabi.


    900 (1): Eleven Canadian units are approaching Victoria, but the nearest ones are all on hills so we won't be attacking.

    New York CC --> tomahawk warrior.

    The Incas complete the Oracle, so (the way the Oracle works in CCM) they're probably the world tech leaders. We don't know them.


    860 (2): In the first skirmishing around Victoria we bombard a Canadian warrior with our elite catapult and gain a Great Leader (2-0). Excellent--there's Boston's granary.

    Boston CC --> granary (rushed next turn by Washington), Atlanta CC --> transport ship.

    We lose a warrior to the attack of a Canadian tomahawk warrior at Victoria (2-1). The situation there is tricky, since the advancing Canadian units have an iron hill next to the city on which to stack.

    Boston CC --> granary (rushed next turn by Washington), Atlanta CC --> transport ship.

    Victoria comes out of resistance.


    820 (3): Fortunately the Canadian stack on Victoria's iron hill consists of five archers, a chariot, and a TW, all covered by just one spearman. We're able to smite all eight without loss (10-1). We even gain two slaves. If these units had waited for two spearmen and two warriors just behind them our position would have been very difficult. :smoke:

    Washington auto-produces a slaver.

    Boston granary --> TW, Philadelphia spearman --> spearman.


    780 (4): We bludgeon a spearman and two warriors on the grasslands outside Victoria (13-1). A better-covered stack is headed for the iron hill, though.

    We pop-rush Victoria's walls. I never like to do this, but too many Canadian units are approaching for us to rely on defending strictly by attacking.

    Away from the main front we move an improvised task force next to Regina, in hope of finding it lightly garrisoned.

    We repel a TW attacking out of Regina (14-1).

    Washington Jumbo --> one-turn spearman, New York TW --> TW, Victoria walls --> American Flag, Gatineau AF --> CC.

    Starting with the Great Library, six Wonders cascade to civs we don't know, including World Religions Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam.


    740 (5): The new Canadian stack on Victoria's iron hill consists of five archers and a catapult covered by three spearmen. But the spearmen are regulars, our attacks on them go well, and we expunge the whole stack for the loss of one TW (23-2). We gain a slave and our second Great Leader of the round, who'll rush slavery in Boston.

    We also get the iron hill roaded, which should prove very helpful tactically.

    Regina is held only by two spearmen, and our small force takes it at the cost of a TW (25-3).
     

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