RB1 - Let's get started
- Thread starter darrelljs
- Start date
darrelljs
Immortal
Sulla, I think the some of the later policy lines are really strong, starting with Patronage. Stonehenge generates more culture than anything in the game and is fairly cheap. I don't think The Great Library is as important with targeted Great Scientists, though.
Settler next is fine with me. I do think we should get a Library up fairly quickly, and try to use a GS to get to early Swordsmen.
Darrell
Settler next is fine with me. I do think we should get a Library up fairly quickly, and try to use a GS to get to early Swordsmen.
Darrell
SevenSpirits
Immortal?
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2007
- Messages
- 512
I see lots of people raving about Stonehenge and Great Library so far. Are they really that great? Culture is nice and all, but the social policies don't see that crucial to me. You can get a single free tech from any Great Scientist, probably much easier than building a wonder. In my own (admittedly very limited) experience, I'm always desperately hard up for production in the first 100 turns. I can't imagine spending 20+ turns on a wonder that early! Maybe if you had marble and were Egypt or something...
Anyway, I desperately need that early production for settlers, workers, and extra military units. Even running a quasi-farmers gambit with the bare minimum of military, I still can't really keep up on production. My initial impression is that the early wonders in Civ5 are like early wonders in Civ4 for Multiplayer games: somewhat of a sucker's build that sets you further behind. There's no way you're getting to 5-6 cities by Turn 100 if you pause to build those wonders, and I would much rather have those cities!
Of course I'm still trying to figure things out myself, so please feel free to disregard this entire post.
Just imagine if you could oracle biology. You make up the lost ground pretty quickly with insane river farms. Your basic guy on an improved tile nets 1g, 1s, and 1f or 1h. With Civil Service you add another 1f/1h to that, which IMO increases the output of every citizen by almost 50%. The advantage of throwing Stonehenge in there is being able to get several Patronage policies (since CS gets you to the medieval era) which are pretty amazing.
I start off the turn by switching production to a settler, since we won't get the great library, and I feel getting a second city up is the most important for now. After the settler we can build a library. The settler is due in 9 turns.
On turn 41, our worker completes its farm on the riverside desert hill, giving it a nice 1/2/1, which will become 2/2/1 when we get Civil Service.
I then set our worker to farm the other riverside desert hill we have, due in 8 turns with the new very slow improvement building in Civ 5.
Our scout continues to scout the northeast, and I let our warrior hang around near Washington, since I want to save the nearby encampment in case a city state wants us to clear it later, and I don't want to leave Washington undefended for barbarian pillaging.
Turns go by without much to do, and on turn 46 we find Seoul in the northeast:
Not maritime, sadly, and they're also allied with Persia for some reason (maybe they killed a barbarian encampment for them) and protected by them and India.
On turn 47 we complete Philosophy and enter the Classical age!
I set research to animal husbandry since we really haven't decided our tech path now that we won't sling CS anymore, and we might pop horses nearby to help us decide if we should go for early horsemen to attack someone with.
I have a great chance to steal a worker from a barbarian encampment with our scout, but we said we wouldn't abuse stealing workers, and I was unsure if that included barbarian stolen workers or not.
At least England and Germany both lost scouts to those brutes there!
Washington continues producing the settler, the worker continues improving the hill and our scout finds Persia's capital Persepolis on turn 49. It has a whole lot of trade posts, and for some reason Darius has a much higher score than everyone else right now.
The settler also finished on turn 49, but since we haven't decided where to put our second city yet, I decided to let it wait in the city for a turn so we can decide between my and darrel's turns. I start production on a library, and Washington starts to grow slowly now again, since we have 1 food on our hill now. Soon our second hill will also have a farm, but Washington will still grow really slowly. I want a maritime city state
Finally, on turn 50, Goethe travels back in time to 2000 BC, and instead of writing about a scholar selling his soul to the devil, he compiles a list of the civilizations with the pointiest sticks, where we're in dead last, which was expected.
And then I save and hand over the save to Darrell.
We should decide where to settle our second city. Also what to tech next. Imo if we don't get any horses near when animal husbandry completes, we should go for mining and go for iron working instead, because i want to kill a civilization soon!
On turn 41, our worker completes its farm on the riverside desert hill, giving it a nice 1/2/1, which will become 2/2/1 when we get Civil Service.
I then set our worker to farm the other riverside desert hill we have, due in 8 turns with the new very slow improvement building in Civ 5.
Our scout continues to scout the northeast, and I let our warrior hang around near Washington, since I want to save the nearby encampment in case a city state wants us to clear it later, and I don't want to leave Washington undefended for barbarian pillaging.
Turns go by without much to do, and on turn 46 we find Seoul in the northeast:
Not maritime, sadly, and they're also allied with Persia for some reason (maybe they killed a barbarian encampment for them) and protected by them and India.
On turn 47 we complete Philosophy and enter the Classical age!
I set research to animal husbandry since we really haven't decided our tech path now that we won't sling CS anymore, and we might pop horses nearby to help us decide if we should go for early horsemen to attack someone with.
I have a great chance to steal a worker from a barbarian encampment with our scout, but we said we wouldn't abuse stealing workers, and I was unsure if that included barbarian stolen workers or not.
At least England and Germany both lost scouts to those brutes there!
Washington continues producing the settler, the worker continues improving the hill and our scout finds Persia's capital Persepolis on turn 49. It has a whole lot of trade posts, and for some reason Darius has a much higher score than everyone else right now.
The settler also finished on turn 49, but since we haven't decided where to put our second city yet, I decided to let it wait in the city for a turn so we can decide between my and darrel's turns. I start production on a library, and Washington starts to grow slowly now again, since we have 1 food on our hill now. Soon our second hill will also have a farm, but Washington will still grow really slowly. I want a maritime city state
Finally, on turn 50, Goethe travels back in time to 2000 BC, and instead of writing about a scholar selling his soul to the devil, he compiles a list of the civilizations with the pointiest sticks, where we're in dead last, which was expected.
And then I save and hand over the save to Darrell.
We should decide where to settle our second city. Also what to tech next. Imo if we don't get any horses near when animal husbandry completes, we should go for mining and go for iron working instead, because i want to kill a civilization soon!
I just realized I should post a picture of the lay of the lands so it's easier to decide where to place the city
Edit:
Is it just me or, is it much harder to see overview pics in Civ 5? The screen seems so cluttered. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong.
Edit:
Is it just me or, is it much harder to see overview pics in Civ 5? The screen seems so cluttered. Maybe i'm just doing it wrong.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
"For some reason Darius has a much higher score than everyone else right now." Check the left side of that screenshot. You've found your Stonehenge culprit! 
(Wonders grant more points for "score" than anything else. Interesting decision, but those are the new rules.)
(Wonders grant more points for "score" than anything else. Interesting decision, but those are the new rules.)
Oh yeah, I didn't see the stonehenge there. I say we punish Darius for his crimes!
Also i'm pretty sure the sign with the flag in the same pic is a settler, which means he's off creating a new city now, if he hadn't already by them time i finished my turns.
Also i'm pretty sure the sign with the flag in the same pic is a settler, which means he's off creating a new city now, if he hadn't already by them time i finished my turns.
You have a great chance to get diplo points with Seoul if that worker is taken from them. It could be even better if you wait them to give a mission about that barbarian camp
Nice game so far. Wish you good luck!
As Sullla mentioned going for early wonders is a big gambit even on low difficulties like prince or king is. I did yesterday the Stonehendge-Great Library-Oracle slingshot BUT it was with Egypt and eary monument for that Tradition tree (especially +33% wonder bonus). Still I have to say I have a wonderfull (
) start. 2 river hills and wheat on plains on river in the first ring and some more plains with river in second ring. My only problem was barbarians. Not for any risk of defeat but for potencial lost worker turns (hiding the worker and so slowing the process of improving land or pillage of completed farms).
All that is said because a I got Civil Service that way VERY early and with the land I was given it was just "must have". I almost fill the Tradition SP tree which could look like small beuracracy civic from Civ4 (not hammers and money, but food and happiness).
Still I don´t thing it is THAT powerfull. I was way behind in expansion even with a settler built in between two wonders. I can say with sure I was still a bit lucky though, e.g. Catherine was building the Great Library for ages but I am not sure how close she was at the end.
Anyway I thing a game without those wonders may be more interesting and more educational for all of us.
As Sullla mentioned going for early wonders is a big gambit even on low difficulties like prince or king is. I did yesterday the Stonehendge-Great Library-Oracle slingshot BUT it was with Egypt and eary monument for that Tradition tree (especially +33% wonder bonus). Still I have to say I have a wonderfull (
) start. 2 river hills and wheat on plains on river in the first ring and some more plains with river in second ring. My only problem was barbarians. Not for any risk of defeat but for potencial lost worker turns (hiding the worker and so slowing the process of improving land or pillage of completed farms). All that is said because a I got Civil Service that way VERY early and with the land I was given it was just "must have". I almost fill the Tradition SP tree which could look like small beuracracy civic from Civ4 (not hammers and money, but food and happiness).
Still I don´t thing it is THAT powerfull. I was way behind in expansion even with a settler built in between two wonders. I can say with sure I was still a bit lucky though, e.g. Catherine was building the Great Library for ages but I am not sure how close she was at the end.
Anyway I thing a game without those wonders may be more interesting and more educational for all of us.
What Meiz said on the Barbarian's worker - note the incomplete sheep improvement near Seoul? I don't see any abuse here either - the worker is being guarded, and was stolen initially.
The Maritime State gambit is looking increasingly unlikely, since I still see none. And it's now very apparent how much Stonehenge leaves to chance: Effectively we lost, what, 20 turns of production for nothing (except some cash)?
My conclusion: That a fluid strategy is valuable - full consideration of the possible options, rather than one clear path that might fail at a critical juncture.
In the interim, at least take a step back and work out what you are trying to do now, because it simply isn't clear to me:
We got Philosophy... but for what? I know we were heading up to Civil Service, and missing Stonehenge caused panic, but now we seem to be flailing around with little sense of direction. We took 40+ turns worth of pure economy/research techs, and *now* we're thinking about a horse rush? Something that implies diverting from all the advantages we do have, to get a credible army out in time to do anything.
In practice, about the only viable rush I'm seeing would be against England, by siding with Alex (who for whatever reasons seems to have taken a dislike to Elizabeth), and getting an alliance with Dublin (perfect positioning to support a war against England, open borders through Dublin for you vs hostile borders for Elizabeth, plus eventually some free units). Net result you can war with England using only a handful of your own units. That's quite attractive, given that there's a good chance some sort of war will break out here eventually.
But I'm still reminded that our tech lead is in areas like libraries, maybe an Oracle. And there's no shortage of very defensible space to expand. All things which point to slightly more of an early builder game.
The Maritime State gambit is looking increasingly unlikely, since I still see none. And it's now very apparent how much Stonehenge leaves to chance: Effectively we lost, what, 20 turns of production for nothing (except some cash)?
My conclusion: That a fluid strategy is valuable - full consideration of the possible options, rather than one clear path that might fail at a critical juncture.
In the interim, at least take a step back and work out what you are trying to do now, because it simply isn't clear to me:
We got Philosophy... but for what? I know we were heading up to Civil Service, and missing Stonehenge caused panic, but now we seem to be flailing around with little sense of direction. We took 40+ turns worth of pure economy/research techs, and *now* we're thinking about a horse rush? Something that implies diverting from all the advantages we do have, to get a credible army out in time to do anything.
In practice, about the only viable rush I'm seeing would be against England, by siding with Alex (who for whatever reasons seems to have taken a dislike to Elizabeth), and getting an alliance with Dublin (perfect positioning to support a war against England, open borders through Dublin for you vs hostile borders for Elizabeth, plus eventually some free units). Net result you can war with England using only a handful of your own units. That's quite attractive, given that there's a good chance some sort of war will break out here eventually.
But I'm still reminded that our tech lead is in areas like libraries, maybe an Oracle. And there's no shortage of very defensible space to expand. All things which point to slightly more of an early builder game.
I wasn't thinking about a horse rush, i just want to see our options. Hell we don't need to rush anything, as the AI is so incompetent at warfare we can be really slow in getting horses or swordsmen and still win any war easily.
That said I think we should expand for now to 3-4 cities and then take out England imo. They're on a peninsula that potentially can only be reached through us, so they're the obvious choice to attack, but it's not like we need to rush to be able to win a war, as long as we make some more military units to defend our new cities we should be fine.
That said I think we should expand for now to 3-4 cities and then take out England imo. They're on a peninsula that potentially can only be reached through us, so they're the obvious choice to attack, but it's not like we need to rush to be able to win a war, as long as we make some more military units to defend our new cities we should be fine.
darrelljs
Immortal
I think taking a Barbarian worker is fine. So no maritime city states, I still think we should try and get early Longswordsmen and crack some skulls. That means settlers and workers for now. Didn't one of our distinguished lurkers suggest something along those lines 
.
I like the triple fish city site east of Dublin myself. Specifically 7/4 from the silver tile. I need to play the game tonight because I am out of commission all weekend. Please everyone (lurkers included) post your suggestions.
Darrell
.I like the triple fish city site east of Dublin myself. Specifically 7/4 from the silver tile. I need to play the game tonight because I am out of commission all weekend. Please everyone (lurkers included) post your suggestions
.Darrell
That spot is probably the best, because if we take it we also close off our lands to everyone else except england (since our southeast is protected by mountains unless i'm missing something) so we won't have to worry about any other civs taking spots down there.
darrelljs
Immortal
BTW everyone great turn reports this time around. Mine was definitely the worst I'll try and bump it up for round 2. If I have NOT posted my report by midnight (likely), I didn't get to it . In that case, I'd ask for a swap with regoarrarr. If rego and sunrise089 can get two turns before Monday then I'll have to take a skip.
Darrell
. In that case, I'd ask for a swap with regoarrarr. If rego and sunrise089 can get two turns before Monday then I'll have to take a skip.Darrell
Yazilliclick
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2002
- Messages
- 2
The maps tend to have a lot more going on, and doesn't help that everything has an icon and you can't fully customize it. That said I think the strategic view makes it very clear as it's cleaned up, top down and every icon fits inside the relevant hex.
darrelljs
Immortal
I definitely need a skip. I haven't looked at strategic view yet Yaz, I'll try that out.
Darrell
Darrell
regoarrarr
King
Okay I got it and am going to play. Is it a good thing that I haven't played a game of Civ 5 since my last turnset?
I'm going to see if I can figure out my graphics issues
I'm going to see if I can figure out my graphics issues
regoarrarr
King
Yeah my screenshots are still black so I'm not sure what to do. In the meantime, I'm going to ask sunrise to swap with me as well
regoarrarr
King
Similar threads
