RB20 - Miller Time
- Thread starter Sirian
- Start date
early and will be even more ahead in the late game.Sirian said:Party Time!
Civilization: America
Leader: Washington
Difficulty: Prince
Map Script: Highlands
World Size: HUGE
Game Speed: Epic
Victory Conditions: Time
Game Rules:
* 24/48 rule loosely enforced.
* 15 turns per player
Variant Rules:
1. No Mines, Cottages, Nets, Quarries, or Wells. (Just "farms" and "mills").
from comment it is my undestanding that camps and
other improvements that harvest calendar and monarchy resources are permitted.
2. Coal mining is allowed (but no Coal Plants! Just enabling railroads).
3. No chopping of vegetation!
Are Jungle included? Does it ment that calendar resources can not be developed as it will demand chopping jungle/forest?
Thought after latest rach jungle did not grow on top of improved squears yet, but many resources ihave jungle or forest on them.
4. Allowed Civics include: Representation, Nationhood, Free Speech, Serfdom, Emancipation, Environmentalism, Pacifism, Free Religion.
Conscription seems to be the only permitted way to get some additional shields
5. No starting wars.
6. If war is forced upon us, we will fight to keep (or retake) all that is ours.
7. The first civ who sneak-attacks us will be our "worst enemy" and we will strive to oppose them diplomatically. We are only allowed to capture cities from our worst enemy (or recapture our cities taken by anybody), and in fact we can proceed to wipe them out if the team agrees this to be wise or necessary.
can some one else become worst enemy after first civ whiped out?
8. Once we have a worst enemy, anybody who joins them in war with us is subject to "being taught a lesson" by having one of their cities captured by us, to send a message about "choosing unwisely".
Captured or it can be raised?
9. No intentionally settling on otherwise uncollectable resources. (We can use them if we sat on one by accident, though. Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!)
10. Once we have learned Drama, we must maintain at least 20% Luxury Tax at all times! (Governmental Organization Of Drink, Necessarily Ensuring Social Security -- GOODNESS -- also known as the Hops Allow Perpetual Partying Yearlong law -- the HAPPY law.)
And yes, the HAPPY law brings endless GOODNESS!
As I see it will be poor shield poor commerce variant. The only way to increase production is Replaceble parts and for increase of commerce is calendar (probably not, as chopping requed) and Electricity. Poor happiness, windmill on gold, lol.
hmm...
Iustus
King
Good question about the jungle. I would think that all jungle chopping should be allowed, but no forest chopping, even if a forest grows over a tile we really wanted to improve, including resources.
How would you feel about adding no tech trading?
I do not think you specified if oil platforms (on the water) is allowed or not? I assuming building a work boat for exploration is alright?
-Iustus
How would you feel about adding no tech trading?
I do not think you specified if oil platforms (on the water) is allowed or not? I assuming building a work boat for exploration is alright?
-Iustus
Rowain deWolf
King
Sirian said:
I doubt there will be many jungletiles or chances for oil-platforms
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
Well I'll be the first to admit last sg at uh - oh man- no idea level of difficulty just wore me through and burned me out on civving hard core.
you know I cannot even rememer the difficulty of the last merz sg I was in ug... I'll have to cheat and look.
That said in order to get back in the flow (not from warlords mind you ) I'll gladly be an alternate since all the mains are seemingly taken.
Am very rusty for sure, a prince gooffest sounds perfect.
oh and off the subject, good to see you andrewn, merz and I were worried about you back during merz 1.
Cheers!
-Liq'd
you know I cannot even rememer the difficulty of the last merz sg I was in ug... I'll have to cheat and look.
That said in order to get back in the flow (not from warlords mind you ) I'll gladly be an alternate since all the mains are seemingly taken.
Am very rusty for sure, a prince gooffest sounds perfect.
oh and off the subject, good to see you andrewn, merz and I were worried about you back during merz 1.
Cheers!
-Liq'd
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Rules update: can chop vegetation as part of building a Plantation.
ROSTER:
Sirian
Strauss
Tatran
Iustus
mike p
Alternates:
mihau (who is going sailing at some point)
Liquidated
I'm going to get this thing started now.
- Sirian
ROSTER:
Sirian
Strauss
Tatran
Iustus
mike p
Alternates:
mihau (who is going sailing at some point)
Liquidated
I'm going to get this thing started now.
- Sirian
ruff_hi
Live 4ever! Or die trying
Sirian - I see you have uploaded a bunch of pictures but not a report to go with them yet - guess I will have to wait. Are you looking for a 3rd alternate?
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
Programming note: We're not going to build any of the ancient-era wonders. No Henge, no Oracle, no Pyramids, no Parthenon, etc.
Since we have fairly limited civics choices, there are a couple of lines of research that we should prioritize:
* Meditation (spawns Buddhism, enables monastaries (no OrgRel!), enables Philosophy)
* Animal Husbandry (reveals Horses)
* Hunting/Archery (enables Camps, Archers)
* Bronze/Iron (revealing where we should NOT settle, to reduce the chances of "lucky strike" town locations -- yes we want to REDUCE the chances!)
* Horseback Riding
* Feudalism (enables Serfdom, Longbows)
* Code of Laws (cheap Courthouses)
* Philosophy (enables Pacifism, enables Nationalism)
* Writing/Alphabet (enables Drama, Literature)
* Construction (enables Cats, maybe Jumbos)
* Drama (enables GOODNESS! That's, well... That's what it says it is!)
* Machinery (enables mills)
* Nationalism (enables Nationhood)
This list is not meant to suggest the research order, just a bullet list of targets in the early game.
So here we go. We draw a temperate start on a river and a lake, with lots of grassland forest. (Our capital, having the food to grow large with all these grass forests, already looks like an Ironworks Candidate).
4000BC: I settle on the spot. A hut is just outside our border. Corn and Pigs are revealed within city range. I start research in to Meditation and start training a Worker (we already know Agriculture!) I move our citizen from a forest to the lake, with its three commerce, to help speed us along toward grabbing Meditation first. Our warrior explores southward.
3760BC: Our borders expand and pop the hut. The locals teach us Sailing!
Now that the Corn and Pigs are in range, I re-enable the city governor and allow the citizen to move to the Pigs on the river, trading 2bpt for 1fpt, speeding worker production.
3640BC: Our warrior fights a Wolf, wins.
3580BC: Pop that hut, receive treasure tribute. IBT, both a Lion and a Wolf attack!
Our warriors are victorious! I promote the unit to Woodsman I.
3250BC: Washington trains our first worker. Also, coincidentally, Meditation learned and Buddhism founded.
I revolt, moving our nation to the True Faith. (Meditating on the wonders of Miller Time).
3070BC: Our warrior finds the Russians.
They assure us they also like beer, so we agree to let them live.
3010BC: Our first major farming community is assembled. CORN! (Mmm, whiskey. Good beer chaser!)
What time is it? ... MILLER TIME!
Since we have fairly limited civics choices, there are a couple of lines of research that we should prioritize:
* Meditation (spawns Buddhism, enables monastaries (no OrgRel!), enables Philosophy)
* Animal Husbandry (reveals Horses)
* Hunting/Archery (enables Camps, Archers)
* Bronze/Iron (revealing where we should NOT settle, to reduce the chances of "lucky strike" town locations -- yes we want to REDUCE the chances!)
* Horseback Riding
* Feudalism (enables Serfdom, Longbows)
* Code of Laws (cheap Courthouses)
* Philosophy (enables Pacifism, enables Nationalism)
* Writing/Alphabet (enables Drama, Literature)
* Construction (enables Cats, maybe Jumbos)
* Drama (enables GOODNESS! That's, well... That's what it says it is!)
* Machinery (enables mills)
* Nationalism (enables Nationhood)
This list is not meant to suggest the research order, just a bullet list of targets in the early game.
So here we go. We draw a temperate start on a river and a lake, with lots of grassland forest. (Our capital, having the food to grow large with all these grass forests, already looks like an Ironworks Candidate).
4000BC: I settle on the spot. A hut is just outside our border. Corn and Pigs are revealed within city range. I start research in to Meditation and start training a Worker (we already know Agriculture!) I move our citizen from a forest to the lake, with its three commerce, to help speed us along toward grabbing Meditation first. Our warrior explores southward.
3760BC: Our borders expand and pop the hut. The locals teach us Sailing!
Now that the Corn and Pigs are in range, I re-enable the city governor and allow the citizen to move to the Pigs on the river, trading 2bpt for 1fpt, speeding worker production.
3640BC: Our warrior fights a Wolf, wins.
3580BC: Pop that hut, receive treasure tribute. IBT, both a Lion and a Wolf attack!
Our warriors are victorious! I promote the unit to Woodsman I.
3250BC: Washington trains our first worker. Also, coincidentally, Meditation learned and Buddhism founded.
I revolt, moving our nation to the True Faith. (Meditating on the wonders of Miller Time).
3070BC: Our warrior finds the Russians.
They assure us they also like beer, so we agree to let them live.
3010BC: Our first major farming community is assembled. CORN! (Mmm, whiskey. Good beer chaser!)
What time is it? ... MILLER TIME!
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
(That ruff_hi is all over my report before it's even posted. Somebody give that man a beer! We could use alternates like that.)
2890BC: Hinduism FIDAL.
Another religion has been founded? I'll drink to that.
What time is it? ... MILLER TIME!
2800BC: Washington's borders pop.
I'll drink to that.
What time is it? ... MILLER TIME!
OK, I've played the first forty. We've got our religion and the first supplies of alcohol are flowing freely. Our people are so rejoiceful, they have become much more "fruitful" and are engaging in multiplication (which, perhaps, will some day be useful in discovering mathematics!)
What I would like to do instead of chasing early wonders is to do massive scouting. We have a HUGE map on our hands, and one or two warriors wandering around won't really cut it. Nor will Scouts, who will simply get eaten by barbarian warriors or archers before they can get their value.
How many scouting warriors would we like? We might pop extras from huts, but I'm not sure we should count on that. I'd say somewhere between four and six warriors (or perhaps some archers) on scouting duty, combing the land. They'll pay for themselves in hut finds, perhaps, and more so in gathering intel. Plus, how often do you get to scout around a huge Highlands map? You can build wonders in any game, but THIS... this is a wonder unto itself, and we should savor the experience.
Next turn, our initial warrior should fight off this Lion:
He will then promote to Woodsman II and can do all kinds of good scouting. Do not be smoking the pungent weed
with him, though. (Nor getting stone-faced drunk. Beer is good, but beer-induced idiocy is not. Don't get him killed out in the open! Got it? Preserving the scout is more urgent than moving across terrain at the fastest possible rate).
Next turn, our second warrior will train and our capital will reach size 3. Here is a look at the globe view, already incapable of showing all of our scouted terrain on the same screen. (Welcome to HUGE maps!)
With our scouting priorities in mind (and perhaps the chance to look for Horses soon), I pass the baton to the capable hands of our next leader.
From here on out, it's fifteen turns per player. (Don't miscount or lose track, or it's no beer for you!
At least for one round.)
WHAT TIME IS IT?!?
ROSTER:
* Sirian
* Strauss ---> UP NOW!
* Tatran ---> On Deck
* Iustus
* mike p
Alternates:
mihau (who is going sailing at some point -- good thing we have that tech already!)
Liquidated
ruff_hi
Cheers.
- Sirian
2890BC: Hinduism FIDAL.
Another religion has been founded? I'll drink to that.
What time is it? ... MILLER TIME!
2800BC: Washington's borders pop.
I'll drink to that.
What time is it? ... MILLER TIME!
OK, I've played the first forty. We've got our religion and the first supplies of alcohol are flowing freely. Our people are so rejoiceful, they have become much more "fruitful" and are engaging in multiplication (which, perhaps, will some day be useful in discovering mathematics!)
What I would like to do instead of chasing early wonders is to do massive scouting. We have a HUGE map on our hands, and one or two warriors wandering around won't really cut it. Nor will Scouts, who will simply get eaten by barbarian warriors or archers before they can get their value.
How many scouting warriors would we like? We might pop extras from huts, but I'm not sure we should count on that. I'd say somewhere between four and six warriors (or perhaps some archers) on scouting duty, combing the land. They'll pay for themselves in hut finds, perhaps, and more so in gathering intel. Plus, how often do you get to scout around a huge Highlands map? You can build wonders in any game, but THIS... this is a wonder unto itself, and we should savor the experience.
Next turn, our initial warrior should fight off this Lion:
He will then promote to Woodsman II and can do all kinds of good scouting. Do not be smoking the pungent weed
with him, though. (Nor getting stone-faced drunk. Beer is good, but beer-induced idiocy is not. Don't get him killed out in the open! Got it? Preserving the scout is more urgent than moving across terrain at the fastest possible rate).Next turn, our second warrior will train and our capital will reach size 3. Here is a look at the globe view, already incapable of showing all of our scouted terrain on the same screen. (Welcome to HUGE maps!)
With our scouting priorities in mind (and perhaps the chance to look for Horses soon), I pass the baton to the capable hands of our next leader.
From here on out, it's fifteen turns per player. (Don't miscount or lose track, or it's no beer for you!
At least for one round.)WHAT TIME IS IT?!?
ROSTER:
* Sirian
* Strauss ---> UP NOW!
* Tatran ---> On Deck
* Iustus
* mike p
Alternates:
mihau (who is going sailing at some point -- good thing we have that tech already!)
Liquidated
ruff_hi
Cheers.
- Sirian
mike p
King
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2005
- Messages
- 705
Could we rename Washington as Milwaukee?
I figure we'll also need a Shaeffer City for sittin' pretty, an Iron City (which should be a production powerhouse - a windmill on iron starts with 2 hammers!, and possibly a Piel's Peaks, since this is a Highlands map.
I figure we'll also need a Shaeffer City for sittin' pretty, an Iron City (which should be a production powerhouse - a windmill on iron starts with 2 hammers!, and possibly a Piel's Peaks, since this is a Highlands map.
Iustus
King
Why work the forest instead of the farm you made, or the lake, or the pigs?
I would like to get the river to the east scouted asap, that may be the best spot for our next city. Northwest looks like it also might have a lot of grassland, but since it is forested, we cannot make much use of it early.
The ivory to the south looks like it may be workable for a 3rd city, but there seems to be a lot of plains around there, have to see more to see if we can place a good city that we can use there. Definitely need some more scouting around our capital to plan a few cities I think? Maybe have the next warrior go southwest to loop around the ivory and then follow the river east? Then the third scout can head northwest?
I suppose we want to put farms down everywhere we can? (I guess that is just the 2 tiles north of the city until Civil Service.)
Why no early wonders? We need score! Do you think they will be too big a distraction?
Research, I think maybe:
Hunting->Archery then either Priesthood (because its much cheeper, even if we are not going to try to build the oracle), or Writing then either Alphabet or Code of Laws.
If we are going to be scouting a lot, it seems like we should make the most of it by researching Alphabet sooner rather than later for some tech trades?
Priesthood also leads to Monarchy->Feudalism, if we want to go that route.
I would rather try to trade for Mining/BW/IW if possible.
Priesthood seems to lead to most of the directions we want to go (well, both Code of Laws and Feudalism), why not try to build the Oracle? Because it hurts our exploring? Or just because you want to do something different?
-Iustus
I would like to get the river to the east scouted asap, that may be the best spot for our next city. Northwest looks like it also might have a lot of grassland, but since it is forested, we cannot make much use of it early.
The ivory to the south looks like it may be workable for a 3rd city, but there seems to be a lot of plains around there, have to see more to see if we can place a good city that we can use there. Definitely need some more scouting around our capital to plan a few cities I think? Maybe have the next warrior go southwest to loop around the ivory and then follow the river east? Then the third scout can head northwest?
I suppose we want to put farms down everywhere we can? (I guess that is just the 2 tiles north of the city until Civil Service.)
Why no early wonders? We need score! Do you think they will be too big a distraction?
Research, I think maybe:
Hunting->Archery then either Priesthood (because its much cheeper, even if we are not going to try to build the oracle), or Writing then either Alphabet or Code of Laws.
If we are going to be scouting a lot, it seems like we should make the most of it by researching Alphabet sooner rather than later for some tech trades?
Priesthood also leads to Monarchy->Feudalism, if we want to go that route.
I would rather try to trade for Mining/BW/IW if possible.
Priesthood seems to lead to most of the directions we want to go (well, both Code of Laws and Feudalism), why not try to build the Oracle? Because it hurts our exploring? Or just because you want to do something different?
-Iustus
Iustus
King
Ok, about the oracle, re-read what you said about scouting, fair enough. Let us enjoy the wonder of this huge world!
-Iustus
-Iustus
Iustus
King
One more question, founding a city on top of a forest is 'ok' right? I see there is one flood plain, at least, on the river to the east. I want to see the rest of the area, hope there are some resources, but a city straight east of the pigs, on the river, basically the edge of what you scouted seems like it could be decent, lots of river tiles, dont have to build a road to connect it up early, at least one flood plain, 2 grassland hills. It looks like a desert tile would be to the north as well, but it might be a flood plain (I doubt it though). Perhaps we could hope for another oasis!
I suppose we will have to do wheel sometime not too late to build a road to a our 3rd city though?
-Iustus
I suppose we will have to do wheel sometime not too late to build a road to a our 3rd city though?
-Iustus
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
I like roads. Waiting until the third city for roads is not a general path for me, though of course I did it in Adv-9.
Founding on forest is OK.
I'm not the most fond of "using up" tech trades on the cheapest techs. Plus the AI will highly value the military metal techs, so we'd have to have something big to trade away for them. This is a different game, though, where it may be harder to GET TO the economic tipping point. Early alphabet along with extensive scouting might indeed be a good thing, although we are likely to rack up both "fair trade" and "worst enemy" effects in the bargain.
Don't worry about the wonder scoring. We'll try to win, of course, but the whole idea of a variant is to tie your own hands to some extent. There's a reason this game is on Prince and not Emperor.
- Sirian
Founding on forest is OK.
I'm not the most fond of "using up" tech trades on the cheapest techs. Plus the AI will highly value the military metal techs, so we'd have to have something big to trade away for them. This is a different game, though, where it may be harder to GET TO the economic tipping point. Early alphabet along with extensive scouting might indeed be a good thing, although we are likely to rack up both "fair trade" and "worst enemy" effects in the bargain.
Don't worry about the wonder scoring. We'll try to win, of course, but the whole idea of a variant is to tie your own hands to some extent. There's a reason this game is on Prince and not Emperor.
- Sirian
Liquidated
Goofed Up on Cough Syrup!
We'll try to win, of course, but the whole idea of a variant is to tie your own hands to some extent. There's a reason this game is on Prince and not Emperor.
Amen, I got burned out on civ merely from ratcheting up the difficulty just for a challenge. I found that the game was the same, just that oversights/loose play just hammered you at immortal/monarch.
I instead love the restrictive/wacky variant restraints placed on a prince level game and then see how to work around the ruleset.
Oh and I have a feeling alternates *will* be called into play in this one
Cheers!
-Liq
Sirian said:I like roads. Waiting until the third city for roads is not a general path for me, /* some spoilerish information */
Adv 9 note said:
SPOILER!
Sirian, U naughty...!
(I know Adv 9 starting situation)
How does the SG work with alternatives?? Is it the chance to substitute skipped Players or those resigning?
My trip is short: 4-13 Aug.
Happy to see the tech popped.
Maybe if I scheduled some clay-crafting lessons Pottery would pop next...?
...Horseback Riding ?
I'm a bit surprised with the highlands map - I expected much more hills/mountains
Sirian said:
My experience with warriors is that they will get beaten almost as easily as scouts. I think archers are the scouting unit we want for barbs.
1-2 scouts would not hurt if they manage to get Woodsman II/Guerilla II on animals.Because:
- always positive in huts - it is the hut we want, right?
- 2 move points = 2 times more effective than warriors even if 2 times shorter living. After Woodsman II/Guerilla II it is 4 tiles - we can use only 3 if we want to save last one move for reatreaing from barbs.
- if IBT barb will approach scout can outrun it easily, warrior/archer will have to defend and heal after that (lost turns).
...of course I am aware of the fact that HUGE unexplored land = huge amount of barbs
Still I like scouts
Sirian
Designer, Mohawk Games
mihau said:
They're out there. This being a huge map, everything is bigger. The valleys and open areas are bigger, but so are the ridgelines and highlands. (The map is generated on a percentage basis, and the same percentages are used for all sizes). Plus a lot of hills are hiding under forests.
As for Alternates... both are warranted. Basically, if we need a permanent replacement, we'll offer that to the first alternate listed, and go in order if they can't go. Temporary replacements are more catch as catch can. If one is needed, we'll call on the first one listed, but if they aren't paying attention and a couple of hours pass, one of the others can call "got it" as the intent is to keep the game moving, not sit around for days waiting on various people to (potentially) fail to show up.
- Sirian
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