RB20 - Miller Time

Got, will play and post today. I really would like to grab the horses, since we'll need chariots/horse archers for a rapid barb repelling force. But I'd also like to keep rolling down the river. Lots of watermills to process our grains and make tasty brew!

I'll also make sure that I'm careful with the explorers. Sirian is wise. There are a whole lot of huts on a map this size. A warrior is much cheaper than the Oracle and can still provide free tech, in addition to showing us the map.
 
1450BC (0) I figure that we can stick with Alphabet, so no changes to our technology.

Looking over New York, it would be very nice to get those pigs and flood plains working, so I halt work on the barracks and start up an Obelisk. I do consider that Buddhism will spread there eventually, but not sure how long it will take.

1420BC (1) The lion attacked our fortified warrior. He'll need one turn to heal, then it's off to the tribal village for a drink.

1390BC (2) Our warrior enters the village, but the village is dry. He does find a like minded fellow though who decides he wants to party more too, so another warrior joins our explorer corps.

1360BC (3) Our worker is done in Washington. I'm not sure what he's supposed to be doing right now, so I have him irrigate another river tile so we can eke out an extra commerce during settler builds. We have a settler due in 10. I also pop a map from a hut.

The following area is revealed. Wow.

Civ4ScreenShot0002.JPG

I send our worker in New York back towards Washington, building a road between them. There's not too much for our workers to do right now.

1330 BC (4) Our scout which had just popped the map meets a scout from Japan (coming from the NW). It's a good thing Tokugawu didn't get that map first!

Also, one of our warriors defeats a bear, and earns his Woodsman II stripes.

1300 BC (5) We pop 46 gold from a hut. That should more than pay for the explorer corps for this turnset.

1270BC (6) One of our archers defeats a panther. That's pretty much it.

1240BC (7) We get experience from a hut, but the warrior is already Woodsman II. I leave him unpromoted for now.

1210BC (8) Buddhism spreads to New York. Obelisk in 15 still, so it won't speed the first border pop. I switch back to the Barracks.

Our scout is slaughtered by a barb warrior. Scouts won't last long on this map.

A barbarian archer attacks one of our warriors, but we win!

Also, Goodies:

Civ4ScreenShot0003.JPG

1180BC (9) Stonehenge is built far away.

I enter a hostile village:

Civ4ScreenShot0004.JPG
Apparently those barbarians never learned how to swim!

1150BC (10) Good day, and welcome to turn 10. Not a lot going on here, so I declared a Festival. :cheers:

1120BC (11) Hangover time.:(

1090BC (12) Judaism founded in a distant land, probably by someone we haven't met yet.

1060BC (13) Our settler is done. I was a little late in bringing an archer back home, so the settler has to cool it for a turn waiting for an escort. Start him SW towards the Clydesdales.

1030BC (14) We pop experience from a hut with another archer. He can pick up Guerilla I & II, but I leave him unpromoted for now, in case we're better off bringing him back as a garrison.

1000BC (15) Back over to you, Sirian.

If you decide a temple, more happy and priest is better in Washington than a library and a couple of scientists, then make the switch. We do need a great prophet eventually. But I was thinking faster research is more important. Do you agree?

We need to be extra careful about not growing our cities too large, since we can't whip them back down. Once the library is done, scientists eat some of our food surplus, but we might want to consider the Avoid Growth button.
 
Got it. Won't play until early Monday, though.

Since we're already on the Alphabet kick, an early push to Drama seems in order. That will put two happy in every city, plus two more with Theaters built. (Remember our GOODNESS rule!) We may want to consider letting our cities grow past their happy limit so that they are already two sizes larger (and at the new limit) the moment Drama comes in.

Just a thought. I look forward to seeing where the game stands. 1000BC already? Wowsers. Seems like millenia have passed since my last round. :lol:

:cooool:


- Sirian
 
Apparently those barbarians never learned how to swim!

I just had to laugh out loud at this. Silly barbarians!

My intent with that first worker was to start building a road south to whereever we decided to make our next city.

-Iustus
 
I would like to see our military beefed up a bit. With barbarian archers out there, we need at least one archer in each of our cities, we could build at least 2 more in the capital before finishing the library?

I think we should make a priority in scouting down our river. Perhaps a 3rd archer to do that (or the first one out of New York). I would like to see us consider founding a city somewhere in the dark green circle once we scout it better.

rb20-iustus-12.jpg


The second reason to scout down the river is if the river is long, which it might be, it might give us an early trade route to another civilization. Call it our river of beer!

-Iustus
 
Edit: Never mind, I just fully realized the meaning of what has been said, aparently the stench of it all has gotten to me! :crazyeye:
 
I did consider sending the settler over to the green circle. Putting him down on one of the plains hills next to the flood plains would be a decent site for this variant. If there are other resources still be discovered there, so much the better.

Though instead of bringing one of our units back home to explore, we should probably just sneak another unit build out of New York, and then use him for fog busting when he's done.
 
Iustus said:
IBT: Drunk on adrenaline and fear, our warrior defeats the wounded and angry bear without a scratch!
Laughed at the above comment - very funny. Keep up the good work. Cheers.
 
After looking at our situation, I decided that we needed to push expansion during my round. I changed Washington's build to Settler and recalled the lone exploring Archer, who was stuck in the middle of a wide expanse of fully explored territory anyway. I would concentrate our workers on roadbuilding toward the south. Our military is SO thin, and our shield output so low, that there is no time to build the Library in Washington any time soon. That would cause way too many vital things to wait longer than they can afford to wait. (Having only three cities on a Huge map at 1AD would be choosing unwisely!)

Washington has two high food plots and is best suited for training our settlers and workers. New York has decent shields around (three 1/2/0 plots? Plus food) and is building barracks. Having New York produce military on a high-shield config while Washington trains a few more settlers would seem to be in order. Once we have about six cities and enough units to defend them decently, then we can shift to upward expansion, with stuff like Library and Theater (by then, we'll have Drama!)

The early Alphabet will mean AIs wanting to make tech trades and even asking for tech gifts. Giving away ultra cheap early techs like Meditation, Sailing, Priesthood, etc, is actually a great way to make early friends (especially on first contact) and reduce our odds of being attacked as well line up some future Friendly neighbors who will be more lenient with us in the number of tech trades they are willing to make on in to the future.

As for making actual tech trades, though, we need to choose wisely. We COULD grab everything on hand, but trading for Mining and Pottery, et al, will mean the trading spigot shuts down on us in the late middle ages. I don't have any specific orders or plans in mind, though. Just offering general commentary. Getting roads built toward our neighbors will be a big deal, as trade routes to peaceful civs will be a larger slice of our total income than is typical. At some point, we will also want to try to spread our religion to civs who have none, rather than letting rival religions get there first. It would be unfortunate if ALL of our rivals end up holding religion attitude penalties against us.

I like the idea of Library in Washington and aiming for an early Great Scientist, but let's get a decent core of cities going first.


985BC: Meet Elizabeth, our closest neighbor, to our east.

rb20-sirian-11.jpg


Not the worst neighbor to be having around. We should try to cultivate her as a friend. She doesn't tend to nab early religion, so perhaps by my next round (or during it) we will try to get a Missionary to her. If possible.

I also move our warrior in the far north, who is next to a hut, east and then south across the river to pop the hut. Seemed like a worthwhile gamble, with no hostiles in sight. However, we have lost the gamble. :(

rb20-sirian-12.jpg


rb20-sirian-13.jpg


Wow. :eek: Talk about bad luck! Not only did we pop hostiles, but the FIRST one, attacking across the river at low odds, wiped us out. Let us hope that we got all the bad luck we're going to get jam-packed in to this one tragic event. (There goes a Woody Warrior, too! Slouchy.)


955BC: Our lone westerly-moving warrior meets a Persion unit.

rb20-sirian-14.jpg


Hindu? Well, that's not so bad. We may want to prioritize giving Cyrus a tech freebie at some point (especially if he asks) to get him up to Pleased.


940BC: Two of our warriors are attacked. One beats off a Lion, the other a barb warrior:

rb20-sirian-15.jpg


Each loses 40% of his health and will need five turns to heal. (Ugh).


925BC: Boston is settled.

rb20-sirian-16.jpg


As you can see, I've chosen a conservative location, close to the capital.

The settler being trained in Washington will head to an equally conservative location, east of the lake, giving us a half-circle of cities in the capital's first ring. I feel we're just too thin on military, with our major scouting policy having sent six units out (one of which is now dead, sadly). After that, cities five and six can push to the second ring, one to the east on the river, one southwest to the horse/lake site.


910BC: Our starting warrior pops a hut in the far south, gets minor gold.

rb20-sirian-17.jpg


Over 300 in the treasury now, good for funding full speed research all the way to Drama for sure.
 
895BC: With our exploring unit at her border, I dial up Lizzy and woo her a bit.

rb20-sirian-18.jpg


We are allowed to come up for tea, so our unit marches straight through London, taking notes along the way.


My expansion plans back home are maturing:

rb20-sirian-19.jpg


The 6XP archer arrives back in New York (green circle).

Our workers (white circles) are building roads, separately, toward the new city sites.

Our warrior (pink circle) from New York left the city a couple of turns ago and is now in place to cover the worker building the road toward future Philadelphia. Our settler will be produced soon, and the new city will be founded the very next turn! :D

We will then have roads connected to both new cities, meaning 1gpt of trade income at each, from internal trade route, plus chance to spread religion (and begin to pop borders, like will happen next turn in New York).

rb20-sirian-20.jpg


Aha! New and better tiles to work. :thumbsup:


850BC: With a high food config, New York grow to size 4 in just two more turns.

rb20-sirian-21.jpg


I swap it to max shields. We URGENTLY need that barracks to finish and more Archers to be trained. (Going to be doing nothing else in New York for some time to come, methinks.)


835BC: Philadelphia is settled. Now all non-Washington cities are building barracks!

rb20-sirian-22.jpg


Light Blue Dot to the south looks like a distant future city site. No resources there, but good terrain. We need to settle better sites first, but that one is worth grabbing eventually. Even with five Peaks in its southern arc, it will make for a good specialist city, so give it a Library (or Market) and two economic specialists (when it's not trying to grow rapidly). Of course, this may not even be amongst our first dozen cities! Heh. :crazyeye:

Washington, as you can see, has started another Settler. This one is intended to head east to the river site, but will need escort from New York. May even have to slow up and wait a turn or two. We're also due for one of those "barbarian invasion phases" soon, and things could get a little dicey there. We're OK as long as they don't attack New York and Washington at the same time, though. (Running a semi-farmers gambit here, at least back home, with most of our military out exploring!)


775BC: My round comes to its end. However, that barbarian attack phase is definitely under way! We have two incursions, luckily both at our cities that already had Archer units: Boston and New York. (Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good!)

I screwed up the situation in New York, I'm afraid, causing the enemy archer to move to the farm. My bad. I got our Archer back in to the city, and used his promotions on City Garrison. The city should be OK, but the Farm and its road are toasty. :smoke: I think I should have just sat tight. Oh well.

On the good news front, Buddhism spread to Philly!

rb20-sirian-23.jpg


Note the worker at the green arrow. That plot has two turns of road work completed, but I have to retreat that worker to safety.

Fifteen turns to Ivory coming within our control. Plus it's BETWEEN our two new cities, in a much more defensible location. I foresee early Construction in our future and much training of Jumbos!

:clap:

Whew. My work here is done. :)

WHAT TIME IS IT?!? :beer:
 
Summary of our military situation:

rb20-sirian-24.jpg


RED ALERT at New York! Archer going to pillage (let him!) and then attack.
Just hold out, hole up, keep the city safe.
May need to MM its tiles to keep it on high shield output.

Yellow Alert at Boston. Should be over soon.

Caution along our two exposed flanks at Warrior-guarded cities. Hope and pray!


In the wider picture, our five remaining scouts are making progress.

rb20-sirian-25.jpg


Three in the east should keep pushing (generally) eastward.
Woody Warrior in the south central should clear up that major fog in the river region.
Perhaps following something akin to the path I've drawn in light blue?


I think probably one of these Pink Dot(TM) sites for fifth city?
pinkdot.gif


rb20-sirian-26.jpg


Definitely Yellow Dot for sixth city and Horses.
Then we need to expand our cities vertically (grow them), consider wonders, etc.

Boston looks like a good site for Heroic Epic.

Light Blue Dot shown strictly for reference purposes (that should NOT be our seventh city!)

Remember that Washington is by far the best suited for training workers and settlers.
We do need to slip its Library in there at some point, though.
Securing our existing lands (and expansion plans) is the short term priority!


*BURRRRP*

Woops. OK, yes, I admit I started early on my mug of draught. :beer:

I claim "drunken stupor" as the excuse for accidentally forcing the incoming Archer ON TO the Farm and getting it pillaged. [pimp]

One drunken stupor allowed per round, preferably with limited damage attached. :lol:


- Sirian
 
Oh One More Thing(TM)...

With Alphabet in, the next two rounds will have hefty diplomatic calls to make. Whether or not to conduct cheap early trades. Whom to gift, if anybody, what, how much, etc. Elizabeth we definitely want as a friend. The rest... Well, who knows. Worst case, blame it on drunken stupor. :lol:


- Sirian
 
How did you force the archer onto the farm? I am not sure I follow, I think I am missing some key point to how they choose to move.

-Iustus
 
Iustus said:
How did you force the archer onto the farm? I am not sure I follow, I think I am missing some key point to how they choose to move.

-Iustus


I moved our archer out of the city, trying to lure them in to attacking the unit on the forest/hill, so I wouldn't have to use up our promotions on City Garrison but could keep the unit unpromoted. But instead of attacking, they kept going toward the city, and instead of THEM moving on to the cover of the hill, they had to go on to the Farm instead (and will pause for two turns of pillaging before they attack).

At least I didn't blow the city itself, though. (That could still happen on a terrible dice roll, but that was true regardless of my failed excursion).


- Sirian
 
Sirian said:
At least I didn't blow the city itself, though. (That could still happen on a terrible dice roll, but that was true regardless of my failed excursion).

Well at least you decreased your own defence odds as the fortify bonus is now down. But I doubt anyway you'd losse this fight.

And now come on guys: WHAT time is it?!? :cheers: Right, 8:14 AM CET and there's hell a lot of work for me to do (European party popper me :lol:)
 
Sirian said:
Got it. Won't play until early Monday, though.

Since we're already on the Alphabet kick, an early push to Drama seems in order. That will put two happy in every city, plus two more with Theaters built. (Remember our GOODNESS rule!) We may want to consider letting our cities grow past their happy limit so that they are already two sizes larger (and at the new limit) the moment Drama comes in.

When you put it that way, our Goodness rule doesn't even seem like a handicap. By putting 20% of our commerce into culture, New York will be able to double its happiness cap (4 to 8!), nearly doubling food, production, and total commerce (only nearly because we're already working the bonus tiles, and there's no effect on the center tile.) It also means that obelisks may not be needed in new cities if we can configure them for enough commerce.

Rather than a constraint, this beeline to drama seems like a valid path with no happiness resources and possibly still worthwhile even with some. And it's something I probably never would have thought of - I automatically go for monarchy when I'm hurting for happiness.
 
Sirian said:
That's not Sulla's -- at least not originally. (Check out RBD SG3 -- for Civ3).


This is not a Warlords game. v161 all the way.


- Sirian

Yeah, found that out reading archives - I've only followed the RB games since Cuban Isolationists.
 
Tarkhan said:
I've only followed the RB games since Cuban Isolationists.

Civ4 version or Civ3 version? ;) :lol:


mike p said:
When you put it that way, our Goodness rule doesn't even seem like a handicap. By putting 20% of our commerce into culture, New York will be able to double its happiness cap (4 to 8!), nearly doubling food, production, and total commerce (only nearly because we're already working the bonus tiles, and there's no effect on the center tile.) It also means that obelisks may not be needed in new cities if we can configure them for enough commerce.

Rather than a constraint, this beeline to drama seems like a valid path with no happiness resources and possibly still worthwhile even with some. And it's something I probably never would have thought of - I automatically go for monarchy when I'm hurting for happiness.

Yes, but the happiness benefit of culture tax is flat, while the cost ramps up with your economy. It IS a good deal for us in the early game, but on in to the late game, 20% of our commerce at cities will go from being a cost of 0 or 1 gpt to over 10gpt in some cases, with no added happiness effect.

We may indeed be able to pop borders from the culture effect alone, although for sure we can do so by building Theaters, which not only provide culture but also will grant 2 happy per turn, and another if we connect Dyes.


I would have put a cap on Hereditary Rule. The fact that there isn't one has caused the happiness effects available at Drama to be more or less completely obsoleted, strategically.


- Sirian
 
I would have put a cap on Hereditary Rule. The fact that there isn't one has caused the happiness effects available at Drama to be more or less completely obsoleted, strategically.

Not to dispute the idea of a cap, which would fix the huge early cities issue, but is not another advantage of Drama in that you can run a civic other than Hereditary Rule? The later civics seem to all have nice bonuses, while all Hereditary Rule gives you is happy. And that happy is at the cost of support costs of your units that are just sitting there.

Am I missing something?

I believe this is the current roster?
* Sirian
* Strauss --> UP
* Tatran ---> On deck
* Iustus
* mike p

-Iustus
 
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