RB2c - Mali - Noble - Just Win Baby!

[Ragnoff]

I thought a general custom, if not rule, on RB succession games was you dont leave units with any automated orders, although I might be mixing the RB series and the LK series. That is why i left the settler in progress on no orders in my save. AS this was my first succession game, I had not wanted to say anything earlier..

Second question, why raze the barb city? why not make use of the fact it is a settler we do not have to make, for a city that will have pop already? Unless your concer is maitances costs, which are alread getting high. But if that is the case, should we fould any more cites right now?

 

[Talamane]

Barbs cities are usually on good sites. If there are (or were) 3 defenders, they will usually stand once you take them. If not, they will usually autoraze. Several posters have stated that some of their best cities were ex-barb.

Got it. Will play tomorrow. Need a question answered before I do. Do we want to keep making that scout in Niani?

 

[Dwip]

Random gotos - Apparently my reading comprehension sucks, because I read the relevant posts twice before playing, and still missed it. That and, as Ragnoff points out, I'm not exactly accustomed to recieving gotos in SGs. This makes the second time ever, I think. Oh well.

I've been using Kumbi for skirm producing, because it can make them in 2 turns. I definitely think Djenne needs to go back to settlers, though, and maybe Kumbi could fit one in, too. I'd rather have our last cities founded sooner rather than later.

As far as Alemanni goes, if the position on it didn't totally suck, and didn't completely ruin the dotmap, I'd be all for keeping it, since I'm a firm believer in the greatness of barb cities. But the position does, and it does ruin it, so I think it should be razed and replaced.

As far as the scout goes, I wanted it as filler production before cranking a worker, without spending zillions of turns on a temple. This may be , though we COULD handle some more scouting. I wouldn't be opposed to cranking a galley real quick in Kumbi, either.

 

[Ragnoff]

Him, I would be in favor of leaving the city rather than replacing it, dot maps are just maps, (i.e. no plan survives first contact) and can be altered and replaced. I will take a look at the save and see if we would be shooting ourselves in teh feet with this, but I did not think so.

If the border between Kumbi and Djenne has closed, fell free to switch us back to Judiem and org religieon if you find yourself in a building building phase (as opposed to a troop building phase).

Edit : ok, I do nto think the bab city is in a bad spot, but it doe restrict what we could do if we raze and replace.

I think that we need to STOP founding cites though. Our costs, even not running organized religion, are high, we are breaking even at only 70 science,. most of that cost is in the number of cites penalty. That cost goes up not only for teh new city, but it raises that penalty for all the other cites as well, as far as i understance it. i don't think we can afford a larger science slowdow right now, and would rather produce the workers we need then more settlers.

 

[Dwip]

The choice as I see it WRT the dotmap and the barb city is we can have an ok city now, or two really good cities, one with coastal access and a bunch of resources later. As far as I can see, that's really not even a choice.

As far as taking the hit on research goes, I'd rather take one, and at least get the two purple dot cities founded. Once we get to Courthouses and Markets, that problem should go away. Plus city econ for all those turns. Plus city production for all those turns. Etc, etc.

 

[Ozymandous]

Hmm...

It is fairly typical to not have units on GOTO's, -unless- you specify who and where such orders are activated on as I did in two places in my report (although I admit I may not have been 100% clear, but in the context I thought everyone got the idea since there were a few comments on the idea) as follows:

200 BC (9):

Two settlers produced and IW due in 1. I queued the settlers and the skirmishers to the proposed city sites to the SW, the furthest one is due in 5.
With the settlers produced two Jewish missionaries are now both due in one turn each.


175 BC (10):

Two missionaries built, one sent to Kumbi and the other sent to the SW for the first site on the river. Hopefully Judaism will move to the other city there naturally.

The borders of Walata expand but still don’t push the German border back. We seriously need to build lots of culture buildings there sooner rather than later.

Settlers and their escorts on the way to their site’s to the SW (see pic). We have iron, but we NEED MORE WORKERS!

Sorry about the confusion, I thought the above bolded bits were clear, but in the future I'll not put anything on auto in case someone misses it in my report again. My mistake.

Erm, production cannot be swapped so all that "filler production" on that scout is essentially for nothing, and if you want to build something while the town grows then put a temple, barracks, anything in there so the production will actually go to something useful. I know, it's a change from Civ3, but that's part of the reason we're playing this right, to see the differences, and not fall into old habits?

As far as the barb city is concerned, I'm with those who want to raze it. I didn't think it was in a good spot myself when I opened the save before and if I had conquered it I would have razed it as well.

I agree, we don't need to found cities constantly now since our back lines are closed off but we do need to be sure to send out military troops to make sure no Barb's can spring up as well as defending our existing cities. Remember the penalties, as Ragnoff said, mount for all cities not just for the new ones, and trust me you really don't want to fall far behind the AI's on tech in this game because you can't always catch up as easily as in Civ3.

Throw another vote in on producing more military (first priority), then workers, then culture buildings where needed, then possibly settlers as we get a better handle on our finances. Alternately keep expanding but maybe a 3:1 military/settler ratio since we desperately need defenders and watchmen for our hinter lands. That's my opinion, although I'm sure someone will have other ideas.

Do we have the iron and copper connected yet? I hope so. If we have a city that can turn workers out in 5 turns or less can we please do that until we get at least one per city?

 

[Dwip]

Assortedly...

Gotos - No worries. I didn't really interpret that as involving gotos, but oh well.

City founding - Our borders aren't QUITE closed off yet, though they may be soon, depending on what Kumbi's at for expansion. Hence why the purple dot cities wouldn't worry me. I mainly don't want to have settlement moved so far down the list that we start getting galleys full of settlers trooping around our backlands.

Scout - Maybe I said that wrong. What I meant was for Niani to finish the scout while waiting on pop growth, then go worker. In true Civ 4 style, I suppose I could have had it work on a temple while waiting for growth, then switched to worker, built that, and switched back to the half-done temple, but I didn't, so. Might be worth trying somewhere though.

 

[Ozymandous]

The borders for Kumbi and Djenne didn't seal completely by the end of your turn Dwip? Hmm, they should have. That's worrisome.

I agree we don't want to stop settler production completely, just maybe one per rotation to slowly fill in the back while we crank troops and culture if possible. Maybe even as sparse as one settler every other rotation, depending.

Anyone know how many proposed decent, non-sardine can, city sites we have in the back lands? Also, it might be a good idea to farm/mine Djenne for our military needs unless there are more cities with a better potential hammer output. If the AI's ever run out of room we might have a hot war on our hands sooner rather than later depending on how much of the continent is left to the South.

Oh, and don't forget to forest chop any forests before plopping a city down since the chop's do carry over to one of our cities and if you clear a forest doing that you lose the 20 hammers worth of wood there.

 

[Dwip]

There's like a 1 tile diagonal gap, is all, but it's there.

There are, per my dotmap back on page 3 or so, 3 more cities to be founded which aren't pathetic, as well as a black dot furs/ice fishing village if we decide we want it.

[edit] This dotmap, here.

The observant reader will observe how badly Alemanni's placement destroys this. [/edit]

 

[Ozymandous]

Ah, then the closest purple dot city would be needed soon, as long as we chop that forest first. Heh, the extra wood might even help boost the settler.

 

[Talamane]

[0] 100 AD. Since no one answered my question about continuing to build the scout in Niani, i will let it finish. Exploration to the south cant hurt.

[1] 125 AD. Skirm at Kumbi completes. Start another. Move units into attack position. I plan to attack with 5 skirms. Failure to take the barb city promotes the survivors, and there is no siege.

[2] 150 AD. Skirm completes in Djenne, move to Timbuktu, skirm completing in Timbuktu will move to Awdaghost.

[3] 175 AD. Workers complete the corral @ Kumbi. Move them to build mine on iron near Timbuktu. Our other workers complete the road near Djenne. I elect to mine the hill, and then complete the road to Niani. Skirms from Djenne move into capital, and warriors in capital move to Awdaghost, which will complete its warrior next turn.

[4] 200 AD. Skirm completes in Timbuktu and starts worker. Djenne starts another skirm. Start Awdaghost on rax. Stack of 4 skirms moves into barb territory. Moses is born in Timbuktu. He builds the Temple of Solomon. Incomes goes from +1 @ 70% sci to +10

[5] 225 AD. The barbs do not attack. Ok, the odds are 4.4 to 4.9, not too good. I will wait for 5th skirm. Fortify Kumbi's new skirm in Kumbi, and start a settler, due in 6, and in good position to settle in the back, once Alemmeni is gone.

[6] 250 AD. Workers on gems near Gao complete mine, and starts a farm for Gao (needs food). Attack on those heathens begins next turn. Weedy , our new scout, moves south. I am moving him one tile at a time. Monarchy completes and start on math. I suggest we get alphabet next, which will allow tech trading.

[7] 275 AD. The barb city is sacked for 91 gold and destroyed at the cost of 2 skirms. I will fortify them, heal, and then position them for the settler due in 4 from Kumbi. Bump science to 80%, making +9/turn.

[8] 300 AD. Napoleon wants open borders, uh, no. Djenne makes another skirm. Fortify it in Djenne. Might be best to start it on a granary when the next unit completes, then pump settlers/workers from it. Send the garrisoned one in Djenne to Gao to beef up our borders. The next one should go to Niani. Worker starts on road to Niani. Iron mine completes, move worker to Timbuktu and start a cottage, we can use the money. I promote one of our skirms to heal, another to city defense, the other just promotes to extra strength (he was made without a rax). I keep moving Weedy due south.

[9] 325 AD. Caesar wants open borders, uh, no. Damn, lost 4 turns of production on a rax in Niani, because it was set to crank out scouts continuously. Fred has axemen, be careful.

[10] 350 AD. Road to Niani completes, start on farm for Niani. Start another skirm in Djenne. Math is due in 3 turns. Iron is hooked up. Skirms are on gotos to border towns to beef up our defenses. Kumbi's settler is due next turn, and a temple is queued up to close the border.

 

[Ozymandous]

[0][1] 125 AD. Skirm at Kumbi completes. Start another. Move units into attack position. I plan to attack with 5 skirms. Failure to take the barb city promotes the survivors, and there is no siege.

.....

[9] 325 AD. Caesar wants open borders, uh, no. Damn, lost 4 turns of production on a rax in Niani, because it was set to crank out scouts continuously. Fred has axemen, be careful.

Any particular reason we attacked the Barb city with Skirmisher's when we can make Swordsmen?

Oh, and I may have had units on GOTO but at least I wasn't auto-building scouts, SCOUTS!

(just teasing yah Dwip. )

 

[Talamane]

Mainly because the iron was not hooked up.

At any rate, it took 4 moves to go from Kumbi to the barb city. I did not want to put off taking it out any longer. The skirms used to take out the barb city will serve as defense for the new north cities.

 

[Ozymandous]

10+ turns after IW was discovered on the last turn of my round and it's still not hooked up?

Erm.. Ok?

 

[Dwip]

Not sure I even recognized that we had iron to hook up...and I looked, too.

(Hooking up the copper might help, too)

Too, skirms are pretty crazy good anyway, swords or no.

And I'll have you know that I deliberately chose that scout, after a whole 10 seconds of deliberation!

(not sure why it would be set to autobuild. I don't turn anything like that option on)

And yay, the barbarians have finally been dealt with.

(yknow, Civfanatics sure does have cool smilies)

 

[Talamane]

The first free worker went to build a mine on the iron. On turn 8, it was complete.

 

[Ozymandous]

Not sure I even recognized that we had iron to hook up...and I looked, too.

(Hooking up the copper might help, too)

Too, skirms are pretty crazy good anyway, swords or no.

And I'll have you know that I deliberately chose that scout, after a whole 10 seconds of deliberation!

(not sure why it would be set to autobuild. I don't turn anything like that option on)

And yay, the barbarians have finally been dealt with.

(yknow, Civfanatics sure does have cool smilies)

ATL-Click set's a unit to perma-build. It's not a option you have to flag.

Oh, and if the next player intends to settle on the purple dot to close off the back lands culture wise, please do not forget to chop that forest on the city spot -first-. That way the shields from the forest don't go to waste. Thanks.

DeceasedHorse, you're up.

 

[Ragnoff]

Has anyone seen DeceasedHorse or Tidus4444about? It has been over 24 hours from the last turn post.

 

[DeceasedHorse]

DeceasedHorse was AFK for a day and a half there. I apologize about that, personal difficulties. I'm still having some problems with running Civ IV consistently (basically, the damn thing won't work if i ever turn off or restart my computer...) and still haven't heard back from Take 2 (nor do I think they will resond any time in the next millenium). I got it and plan on playing out my turn set tommorrow.

 

[Ozymandous]

Well it's been three days. I think it's safe to say that if DH doesn't post an update by the end of the day then it's safe to skip him.

Who's next on the rotation? Tidus?