RBC-14B Netherlands Deity

[Aggie]

Ridgelake can't post from work, so he asked me to post this:

"For build orders, I would get 1 city on military, probably pikes, and the other on colonists.

It likewise would not hurt to have another explorer, though the navigation building will build them in time. Being first to map each continent will yield a lot of gold in map sales. Map sales were financing 100% research during my turn.

We will need military. There are barbs on the continents, not to mention the other nations. So we can't send out unescorted settlers.

We are going to have a hard time keeping up in tech with only 3 cities. We can still get monopoly techs with only 4 other researchers. But we have to guess right. Maybe try banking next, or the top line. The AI always like the military ones such as are on the bottom.

Our 3 cities can only produce about 26-29 shields per turn. We need to make sure that we MM to our best ability.

Good luck, and have fun!

Ridge"

 

[Aggie]

I will play tomorrow CET so additional comments are welcome.

 

[Aggie]

IHT: Traded maps around and got 45 gold from the civs. I'm sure Ridgelake did it in turn 10, but it appears that further info on the map again got us something...

IT: England founds a city west of the furs/river/lake. That spot is still available though. Brussels: explorer->explorer.

Turn 1 (1501 AD) Research to 60%, PP in 1. Map trading.

IT: PP comes in, Spain starts Leo.

Turn 2 (1502 AD) The AI got PP on the same turn I choose Gunpowder next, it appears to be a tech not appealing for the AI. Portugal already discovered Magnetism. I assume that we want Colonization soon, but trading could get us there as well.
At 100% we get Banking in 12.
Brussels switched to pike, Antwerp will be on Colonists after this pike.

IT: Antwerp: pike->colonist.

Turn 3 (1503 AD) Map trading.

IT: The French start Magellan.

Turn 4 (1504 AD) New Amsterdam founded, starts with a Colonist. Amsterdam grew to size 12, so a scientist is hired to keep the people quiet.

IT: Portugal finishes Sistine and starts Leo. The rest cascades to Leo.

Turn 5 (1505 AD) A lot of MM-ing to not waste shields in our core.

IT: Antwerp: Colonist->Colonist.

Turn 6 (1506 AD) Map selling.

IT: Spain declares war on the Portuguese. Brussels: pike->pike. France starts Copernicus.

Turn 7 (1507 AD) France and Spain know Gunpowder. Wrong bet We still need 5 turns to get it. I buy it from France for WM and 511 gold. Emngland gives us Magnetism for Gunpowder and 89 gold. Portugal gives us 30 gpt and 55 gold for Gunpowder
I decide to research Metallurgy at max.

IT: England demands 29 gold and world map. I tell her no. We are at war with the English. France finishes Leo. One of our ships is attacked by barbarians.

Turn 8 (1508 AD) The reason for risking the war vs Emngland is Jamestown. This is close to New Amsterdam and just grew to size two. Our army is also equal in size compared to England. We should be able to survive.
MDI moves to Jamestown with pike.

IT: An amphi attack of an English MDI fails. Our fortified pike survives. IT: Antwerp: colonist->colonist. Spain finishes Copernicus.

Turn 9 (1509 AD) MDI kills a pike in Jamestown, but it has another one...

Turn 10 (1510 AD) MDI (3 hp's) attacks the 2nd pike in Jamestown and we take the city. It is immediately ordered to produce a worker.
We meet the Inca with an explorer that I dropped in Panama. Alphabet and world map gives me world map and 172 gold.
Colonist and two pikes are dropped close to New Amsterdam.

-France gives us 135 gold and wm for Contact with the Inca and wm
-Spain gives us wm, 32 gold and 3 gpt for wm and contact with the Inca
-Portugal gives us wm, 4 gpt and 2 gold for wm and contact with the Inca.

NOTES: I would make peace with England asap now. They provoked us and I didn't think I needed to be threatened. Jamestown is a nice price. We are equal in technology and our economy is good as well... There is still an explorer in the Caravel, meant for the southern part of America. Trading maps every turn remains important! I protected our workers in Holland for amphibious attacks of England.

 

[Aggie]

To the NE of New Amsterdam we have a colonist. The worker close to New Amsterdam is chopping a forest, to speed up our colonist build in the city.

Remember that we shouldn't go to war in Europe.

ROSTER:
-Ridgelake
-Aggie
-Yom------->up
-barbslinger->on deck

 

[barbslinger]

Sounds good Aggie. Nice work on getting Jamestown. That should hamper the English getting set up in America for a while. Is there any reason we couln't drag any othe others into this war. I'm thinking it's because we are weak at home and 16 more turns may be too much to bear though we are enjoying war happiness. Sic'ing France on England would probably help. Your thoughts?

 

[Aggie]

I'd like to avoid conflict in Europe. I'd like a genuine race to the new lands instead of crippling other nations at home. The fact that I accpeted war vs England was merely them bullying us. Jamestown was to nice a price though.

I would make peace asap or maybe until they get a next tech to cheaply get via a peace deal.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I played a DG games with the Dutch yesterday; absolutely boring, I won with ~60k of treasures for milking, with Portugal @25k, and, the only surprising thing, the Iroquese @17k . And I never ever fought anyone except the 2 Barbs on Cuba, I did not open the City screens after the initial turns and had no GA. So in fact, you should have absolutely no problem to in this.
But I found several pretty surprising (and partially annoying, being mentioned nowhere) points:
- Protestantism is not tradable. I spent a lot of Gold to steal it, and couldn't trade it to someone else . And the corruption was virtually the same, btw. But the increased Workers speed is nice.
- Dutch have a severe disadvantage in not being able to build cheap Pikes later.
- Magellan's in Antwerp is doable and absolutely worth it - it acts as an Offshore Platform as well!
- The AI research path is absolutely unpredictable. They did research everyting including the 2nd tiers before Banking...
- Check the frequence of the shipment productions. They vary extremely - a single Gold Mine easily spawns as many treasures as 5 Furs Camps.

 

[Aggie]

Ridgelake's comments:

"A very nice turn and an excellent job of getting Jamestown! I agree that making peace with England soon is a good idea. I don't recall how far away they are from another tech. Waiting for one may cause us to lose some boats.....

I played into the scenario in another game. I found that ship movement is significantly greater than land movement. Because of this, we might want to make a harbor city in the Hudson Bay. There is a river that can be seen on your map in the top left corner that flows into the Bay. That would be a very good spot for a harbor town and access to all of our shipping routes back home. This spot would again be faster than going over land routes to the east coast of North America.

I think a colonist should be sent fairly quickly to grab the horses and wheat that is shown on the bottom left of the map. We need horses and the wheat will help us spam workers/colonists.

In my test game, I did switch to Protestarianism. It had trade bonuses like a representative government. It does only allow 1 MP versus Catholic 2. But it does have the faster workers. Like Doc, I could not observe a material reduction in corruption. But the bonus trade and faster workers would be worthwhile. But as Doc also said, it is not tradeable other than to England. They will research it first which will help reduce our research costs.

There is a lot of gold in the Rocky mountains. Setting up a network of towns in Canada and the U.S. will certainly help support this harvesting. I would not be surprised if our main competition for this land is the Aztecs and Iroquois.

In my test game, I found explorers to be very effective at blocking competing settlers and/or standing on a desired spot. With the requirements of not founding on forest, there are only but so many good spots for cities. Explorers make nice "reservation agents."

I'll post more when I have more thoughts.

Ridge"

 

[Aggie]

Yom, you're up!

 

[barbslinger]

From my experience Yom has his best playing during the weekend. If he does not respond in 24 hours I'll post a got it and we can swap.

 

[Aggie]

That's OK barbslinger.

 

[Yom]

I was planning on playing it tonight (my first free weekday in ages), but my laptop has refused to cooperate . Just when I thought I found a way to get conquests to work, my computer starts to refuse to recognize the cd again! Skip me for now. I'll let you know when I get the laptop working and take a turn then.

 

[barbslinger]

Shoot went to play but the save was for RBC14F - Maya - Diety. Went to uploads and that is the only one there. : oops, aggie thinks at this moment: I'll have to play tomorrow. I was ready too.

 

[Aggie]

Is this better?

 

[barbslinger]

Playing now!

 

[barbslinger]

RBC14B – 1510AD

Preturn – Well not much to do. MM is not really there. Got 3 bucks off the Portugese for WM. We have another colonist heading west on a boat. Can’t quite see how we want our core set up over there yet. I do like the idea of a harbor on the Hudson. I think the current colonist is heading to the furs further west. The next one as well. Will our core be include Salamanca in it someday? I like the idea of a trapper camp in New Amsterdam. It’s a treasure every 12 turns and the sooner the better. I swap it’s colonist for camp in 3. Lizzy is still not talking. The explorer in the caravel is heading to Africa.

IT – Some very quick movement and I think I saw someone, French, out and back in the fog near our colonies. Brussels – Pike>Worker.

[1] 1511 – Nothing from Lizzy. Moving units, nothing really. I’m starting to like the idea of heading towards that double wheat/cow/horse/tobacco site. That would make a nice capital. We get 44g on the maps. Nice little tile swapping in core.

IT – It’s a French LB I saw. Antwerp-Colonist>Colonist, Brussels-Worker>Musket??, New Amsterdam-trapper camp> Colonist in 10.

[2] 1512 – I haggle with Lizzy and get this. We get peace, 30g,14gpt and WM! 15gpt ws almost. Nice job on the early war aggie. She had no tech. 19g on maps. Naval ordanance is know by Henry. Everything is a no-go. Not much cash about anyhow. Wait for a 2-3fer and then lower the sliders. Wonder what the French LB is doing looking at our NAmsterdam? Uncover some more map with explorer. Get another 11g. We have 725g @ +7gpt. I had read in other threads about selling the courthouse in the capital. I did it but I’m leary of selling the others.

IT – TROUBLE! The French declare with an MDI attacking from the sea on Antwerp. We win going red. Another MDI is SW of Brussels. The LB will attack New Amsterdam next turn.

[3] 1513 - We have 3 pikes to defend NAmster. Get 15g on maps. Also a worker from the iro’s for WM and currency. The other natives already have currency and are working on construction. I’m chopping some forests now. They only give 1 food and Nav School is due next turn.We kill the Brussels invader with an MDI and cover with a Pike. I think it is time to rush buy a little. A musket for 208g in Brussels. A longbow in New Amsterdam for 152g. Hope it’s not weed. I think we’re all in new waters here. I’d like to take out Quebec. I also swap Antwerp colonist for 132g rushed MDI.

IT – We win in New Amsterdam against the LB. Nav school comes in and I set it on Magellans tempory. Antwerp-MDI>Colonist, Brussels-Musket>Musket. New Amster-LB>Colonist.

[4] 1514 – I swap Amsterdam to uni for a future bank or shields ready in case the French pursue this war. Get 24g on maps and find out no one is interested in helping us. Well, Spain wants 21gpt and 250g. I’ll keep it in mind. I drop off the colonist and send the LB and a pike to look at Quebec. It has a 3hp pike and just outside of town is another 3 hp pike with a settler(slaves). I build an embassy with the IRO’s for 27g. They have 2 spears and a just created settler in town. If they had more troops I might sic Hiawatha on Francis to raise Quebec.

IT – the French settler runs east away from town.

[5] 1515- LB and pike looking into Quebec with MDI trailing. Lots of ground uncovered. 25g from Maps and Hiawatha figured out map making.

IT – Nada from the French

[6] 1516 – We kill the first pike with LB and theres another that the MDI is going for next turn. I screw up with our scout in the andes and miscount steps. He’s staring at a 2-barb camp. Oops! Monty and Hiawatha both know CoL and MM nor leaving Inca in the dust. They are all broke. Francis still not talking. Spain has naval ordinance. Make 17 or sog on maps.

IT – We lose the Andes explorer. Antwerp-Colonist> Musket.

[7] 1517 – Load colonist into ship. Lose MDI to superpike. Send LB and pike to fortify on mountain. Francis had just said he didn’t want to talk. Explorer in Africa almost meets the same demise as his brethen. Only 8g on maps. Spain has banking.

IT – France attacks! A pike on Antwerp iron hill goes down but I had two pikes there.

[8] 1518 – I’ve loaded a musket with the colonist too and they are on they’re way the route the caravel took in, around the top of England.Francis is still not at the table!? African explorer ID’s a second camp. I think I get between the 2 next turn. 8g on maps. Put another pike into place on iron. Forests get musket next turn. MM to not waste a shield.

IT – Portugal and Spain sign peace. Henry comes offering his WM for 9g. Brussels-Musket>Uni for bank?

[9] 1519 – Looks like the Iros are going to beat us to those prime spots. They’ve settled one and have a settler near the other. England has Prostestantism. 7g on maps.

IT – We win against a LB on iron hill this time. Jamestown-Worker> Worker. Going to road some iron. Iro settle the other spot.

[10] Francis is still tight lipped. Man! Some exploring and 7g. Will comment tomorrow. It’s late.

 

[Aggie]

You defended our cities well barbslinger

ROSTER:
-Ridgelake--->up
-Aggie------->on deck
-Yom
-barbslinger

 

[Ridgelake]

I got it. Probably will be Saturday before I get a chance to play. Any comments would be welcome before then.

Ridge

 

[Aggie]

I would settle our western colonist 2 W, 2SW. SE of the furs, on a river, close to gold. Our 2nd colonist, in New Amsterdam, could go 4 tiles NW of that spot, on a hill with furs and gold in expanded borders. Trouble is: do we have enough turns to expand those borders?

The third colonist -in Antwerp- might go to Brazil, where we see gems and gold. Oh, I see that we have a 4th colonist on a ship on the Atlantic. It could also go to West America, but the good spot are few and far between there. Maybe Death Valley (gold/silver)?. I hope that we can get a good deal from France for peace. We really need a few factories going. But that means learning four techs (up to mining).

 

[Ridgelake]

RBC14B – Dutch Dynasty

1520AD (0) Diplo check reveals that we are at war with the French and they will not talk. We are down banking, and naval ordinance to the Europeans, along with Protestant Gov to the English. We have metal due in 4. Hopefully, we will hit it first and be able to broker back to the forefront.

I stop the workers from chopping forest in our core. We need shields more than food.

A colonist, worker, and pike are loaded into a boat in Antwerp and sent west.

The market in New Amsterdam is swapped to a courthouse. I found courthouses to be hugely helpful in my trial game.

IT We lose a pike on iron hill to a French LB.

1521 (1) Our LB kills a pike in Quebec, but is redlined. Another pike shows.

Francis will talk but won’t pay for peace. Map sales net about 50 gold.

IT We lose 2 fortified pike on good defensive ground to French LBs.

English start Luther’s 95 Thesis

1523 (3) kill 2 french LBs.

IT England completes Magellans.

Map sales for about 30 gold

IT We lose another pike fortified on a hill to a French LB.

MDI kills a musketeer.
MDI kills LB
LB kills LB

Now for our trades with our Monopoly Metallurgy:

England won’t part with Protestant, even with 101gpt and about 500 gold.
Spain has the best offer for it with Banking, Naval Ordnance, 100 gold, and 8 gpt.
England pays WM, 53gpt, and 18 gold.

Take peace with France getting a worker and 1 gold for 2 gpt and WM. Sell him Metal for 28gpt, WM and 96 gold (all he had).

Henry cant offer squat for the tech.

Since the AI have a headstart on Colonization, I start us on Protestanism. It won’t be saleable or buyable. Now seems a good time to research it. Due in 15.

Rush a trapper camp in Jamestown.

1525(5) Found Wiltwyck claiming 2 golds and a fur NW of Cattaragus. Found Fort Orange NW of Jamestown near furs.

Sell Maps

1526 (6) Found Fort Nassau on the Hudson Bay. Rush courthouses in Jamestown, Wiltyck, and Fort Orange.

1527 (7) Sell Metal to Henry for 33gpt, 10 gold and WM.

1528 (8)

1529 (9) England shows up with Colonization.

1530 (10) Piracy and Professional Armies show up with turn. Everyone has colonization. I will leave the trades to Aggie. We should be able to twofer colonization from the French. Be advised that Prof Armies will prohibit us from making 30 shield pikes. We need units to take treasure back to the capitol. Pikes make excellent treasure-bearers.

I left movement on an explorer. There is a Spanish settler pair west of it that is about to claim furs. I have another settler pair in a race with the Iroquois. I would use the explorers to block that pair. I was heading for the gold north of Wiltwyck.

We have a couple more colonist pairs in America. I would be tempted to backfill supporting towns so that we can move treasure more easily from the gold to the seas.

Ridge


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