RBC12B - Fall of Rome - Celts, Sid

[Kabuki]

On a lower difficulty all you need is a two or three turn pre-build as all the barbs have about the same "best city" production. If you can actually get in a prebuild in the capital (as even at 6 it is pulling excellent shields) it should be quite possible as long as you get the tech. Which if you go for sacking, you might be able to trade it off to whomever gets BL first, that also reduces the need for doing double duty on research yourself. Btw. in my experience in this scenario the AI always goes for BL before Sacking.

T-Hawk: Upgrade costs are high, and might not be worth it. The inherent high offense of the units plays to not upgrading them. If you can up Raiders to Marauders that may be good enough?

 

[Speaker]

IT- With regards to the wonder discussion at CFC, I decide to leave the Scourge of God alone. We are Barbarians and barbarians don't build wonders. They destroy them.

Seriously though, I think it's too big a risk and I'd rather have 10 catapults usable now, rather than 200 shields in the box in 25-30 turns.

346AD (1): Dunedin builds Cat and starts another. Small boats explore and trade maps around (I do this every turn). Two of them start heading back home for transport

duty.

348AD (2): Finish some crazy micromanagement to get Dalraida to grow and finish its catapult on this turn, so the forest chop can be fully taken advantage of. Found

Entremont and Alesia.

350AD (3): Bump the luxury tax up to 20% to accomodate Dalraida. Found Camulodunum. Ireland is now fully settled and needs to be developed.

352AD (4): Forest chop means Dalraida will produce a cat next turn. It is approaching 10spt, when it should probably spam out a marauder every other turn.

354AD (5): Dalraida and Dunedin play the mm game.

356AD (6): We definitely need more workers.

358AD (7): Big turn as several cities grow and we build 4 cats. Dalraida is at size 6 and will be 10spt with one hill mine. Luxuries must go to 30% to accomodate several

cities. We need more roads.

360AD (8): Lots of micromanagement. With a bunch of cities who can use 3, 4, 5, and 6 fpt, it is a juggling game every turn. I put growth as first priority in most

cities, especially when the food box was empty.

IT- Dalraida gets the plague and loses 1 population. I have no idea if units will die, but to be safe I move our catapults out of the city and order walls to be built.

362AD (9): The Huns have Pillaging but lack Math. They will not trade it for all our money however, which equals 22gpt using a lot of tax collectors.

IT- Romans and Byzantines start Justinian's Leadership, which means they are into the second age.

364AD (10): I invite my successor to try to get a catapult built in Dalraida in 2 turns. I'm not sure it can be done, but I did fiddle with it.

Conclusion- We need some more workers in Ireland, so I've set our three newest cities on them, but they are of course vetoable to Raiders if so desired. We have 9

catapults, 8 of them over in England already. Iron will be hooked up next turn. Current score is the Celts 140 - Eastern Rome 5500. Almost time for some .

RBC12b - 364AD

 

[Coffee]

got it from this link

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbc12b-364ad.zip

 

[Speaker]

Err whoops. Thanks for the correction Coffee. I fixed the link in my post.

 

[Coffee]

No problem Speaker, looks like a mming set of turns. I'll see about getting some more out.

-> workers that is

 

[Coffee]

Early 364-

364 - 1
I allow myself the privalage of spending some shields to produce workers to try and improve our shield & commercial situation. Drop luxuries to 20% and hire some taxmen.

366 - 2
Start Raiders to improve happiness in Ireland. I'm thinking I'll set a fur colony. Iron gets hooked up and the 2 capital cities can good production soon enough. Ireland can stay on catapults. Luxuries stay at 20 and all the taxmen are gone but one. Just lots of mming. Pushing the raiders now in Ireland and then cats. All but the Visigoths have Math and pillaging is widely known. Sell maps around and wait. The plaque is gone.

368 - 3
Eamhain grows and I hire a 2nd tax man. Start roading the forest in my efforts to improve happiness.
Dalraida starts a marauder.

370 - 4


372 - 5
Set Eamhain to a temple, I think some expansion is needed in Irelands north. And you'll be happy to know that we have a balanced budget when map sales are included.

374 - 6
Dalraida finishes mining the iron and gets 10spt. Well the Visigoths discovered math I was holding out for pillaging but not to be this round.

376 - 7
Miscelaneous growth and specialist shuffling until I can get some mp's in place. Dalraida is fixed at size 6 & 10spt.

378 - 8

380 - 9

382 - 10
Not much to say. We are earning 12gpt, luxs at 20%. Twenty-one more gold per turn will become available next turn. I'd say we need writing and embassies more now than pillaging. But writing *looks* tradable for pillaging. the mine at Dunedin will complete next turn, if it gets 7spt thats good, if not you might want to colonize the furs. Thats about it, the lux rate may seem low but I don't think it is. Your call. We still need some migrants. We have 9 catapults and 4 marauders. Rome is up to 5 cities, one close to the sothern iron but still unconnected.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads6/rbc12b-382ad.zip

 

[Jabah]

I'll try toplay tonight european time.

Just a few question regarding possible action.

If Rome start sending a worker to connect Iron, I think everyone agree that we will have to take immediat actions against them.

If we declare war, should we try to get someone involved as well to get all Rome(s) attention on the continent (we don't want them to land heavy cavalry in Ireland, do we !!!!) and start the global war ?

Jabah

PS (will be away from computer for now until tonight, but will check before playing...)

 

[Coffee]

I don't think we want to know pillaging. Its 40 shields for a pillager and our cities aren't up to it. Suggest not trading for it right now.

If Rome start sending a worker to connect Iron, I think everyone agree that we will have to take immediat actions against them.
A curragh is nearby to check on that. Thats a hard question to answer. I'd like to have embassies in place to know whats what and to form alliances first. A spear inside that curragh couldn't hurt either. Theres 120 turns to go so I suppose I'm leaning to the later rather than sooner side of the question. Keeping losses to the bare minimum is a high priority.

My temple build may have been smokin but we need some expansion there to get both those cities producing. Suggest whipping the temple for 1 population. I think thats 19 shields.

 

[T-hawk]

Agreed, we aren't in shape to build pillagers yet. Marauders are good enough as long as we have plenty of catapults stacked with them.

I wouldn't bend our plans much if Rome makes a move towards iron. Even if they do hook it up, it's another 10-20 turns until they actually build any more legions, as the AI doesn't swap build orders like that. And our cat stack is starting to get big enough to take on legions. I think we're getting ready to move soon, probably with about 20 catapults and 10 marauders...

Yes, we should look for alliances to occupy Rome's attention on the continent - and remember that anyone who allies against Rome also starts fighting East Rome.

One more suggestion - it might be a good idea to leave one Roman city in England, so that we have it available at a moment's notice as the 8th city in case somebody else takes the 6th and 7th...

 

[Jabah]

382AD (0) look at the situation, both Scottisch cities have a clown, but in fact the clown can work the sea without any trouble.
Sell maps for 10g

and here we go
Ostrogoth start SoG

384 (1) Dun Ailinne cat-> barrack (I want at least 1 barrack in Ireland to upgrade or build vet, it is going 5spt with potentiel so good candidate). Camulo.. raider-> worker
Play with the tax rate, Pillaging is 38gpt+100g (Anglo & Visigoth lacking it), writing is 14gpt+100g (visigoth lacking it), too expensive

386 (2) Dal+Dun Marauder-> Marauder (2t&3t now), Entremont raider->worker
Whip temple in Eamhain.
Visigoth has writing now, so it might be the last chance :
Hun: Pillaging for 125g+36gpt (ouch)
Anglo-saxon : Pillaging for Writing+19g

Hun starts SoG

388(3) Eamnain temple->cat, cruachu cat->temple

Byzance starts St Peter & Hagia, Frank SoG

390(4) Dalraida spear-> worker(size6max), Dun Ailinne barracks->spear(3t - to send the reg raider to England for MP in new cities), Caiseal cat->cat

Rome wants TM+20g (half our cash), of course he get that, and starts building St Peter
Many SoG started

392(5) Dalraida Worker-> Pillager

Rome finishes Justinian - lucky for us we are not on the same continent

394(6) Earhaim cat-> cat (3t)
all our friends (but Visigoth) have MapM. Sell some map, can buy MapM from mongol but with 0% lux and resell for CoL to Visigoth but will have 0g left so won't be able to get back to normal. hope it will still be OK latter (several barb have diff level of tech).

396(7) Dunedin Pillager-> Pillager, Alesia cat->cat, Camu worker->worker
both Dalraida & Dunedin are at 10spt now.

Nicomedia (byzance) St Peter.

398(8) Caiseal cat->cat (need for extansion), Entremont worker->worker

Reidhgotaland Ostrogoths has completed

400(9) Dalraida Pillager->Pillager, Eamhain cat-> cat
buy 2 (cheap) Embassy in Kiel & Dispargum (see shots next post), impressive defenses...
other embassies are from 70g to 150g ...

402(10) after all these embassies and stuff, forget to check happiness, Dun Ailinne on strike, mea maxima culpa... correct that and scroll to check (no other were)

Rome now has 7 cities in England .... (but still no Iron) !!!!

Comments

Dalraida is at 15spt (pillager every3t)
Dunedin is back to 7spt but will be 10spt again in 2t (will need to build a worker or be in negativ food)
Eamhain will probably be able to reach 10spt soon (when they forget our whipping...)
several others are on 7spt


Dilemna with cash either :
- save for trying multi-tech (Visigoth are only CoL above us, while all the other are up all or almost all the visible tech)
- save for a few upgrades (Marauder->Pillager = 40g but gets slaves...)
- build embassies

Our army (16 cats, 2 pill, 6maraud....) is soon ready to attack (maybe not this next 10t)

Good luck

Jabah


edit , the link disappeared again :-(

God save the barbarians

 

[Jabah]

 

[Jabah]

I think our only hopes for winning is to have a world war start soon.
Rome has probably no chance of winning (will too easily lose 8 cities) but the big favorite are either Byzance or Perse.

I think we should aim at a last survivor victory and not bother (too much) with VP, if wars break often, every civ will/should lose cities (EVEN the winners) with proper dogpiling and we should be able to deliver the final (8th) blows.

What we realy need is to start thinking about Byzance, who we can't reach and not a lot of barbarian can, because they would win far too soon otherwise.

Perse will be the same kind of problem, but we will have more time.

Basically, we should try to have a
- Byzance-Perse war
- Perse-Huns war


Jabah


(Guess how I lost my private game on this scenario...)

 

[T-hawk]

Do remember that anyone at war with Rome automatically goes to war with Byzance as well. An alliance purchased against either civ is purchased against both, so I think we want to go buy as many as we can afford. We can also pull the fairly sneaky move of paying everybody gold-per-turn for alliances against Rome right before we wipe them out, and thus put everyone at war with Byzance for free.

Rome expanded out to SEVEN cities in England? Our SoD can probably take 'em out in about 20 turns! I might even recommend capturing all the cities instead of razing. Don't keep units in them - let 'em flip back, and we can wipe out Rome without even leaving England!

Charis, I believe you're up. I'm on deck. I think Charis will get to start the ing....

 

[Speaker]

Losing a city to a flip counts the same as losing one by capture right?

 

[Coffee]

Losing a city to a flip counts the same as losing one by capture right?
Thats how I understand it.

 

[Speaker]

Originally posted by T-hawk
let 'em flip back, and we can wipe out Rome without even leaving England!

Then perhaps this is not such a great plan....

 

[Jabah]

Originally posted by T-hawk
Do remember that anyone at war with Rome automatically goes to war with Byzance as well. An alliance purchased against either civ is purchased against both, so I think we want to go buy as many as we can afford. We can also pull the fairly sneaky move of paying everybody gold-per-turn for alliances against Rome right before we wipe them out, and thus put everyone at war with Byzance for free.

That is not completly true, Byzance will declare war only like for MPP if you attack Rome in Rome territory. From what I remember, I had seen barb civ being at war with only one of the Roman civ.

Jabah

PS not sure about letting roman cities flipped back, that will count as well as a city lost for us !!!

 

[Yom]

lurker's comment:
Seeing as the romans only have 2 cultured cities in England and the distance they are from Rome, wouldn't it not be that likely that they'll flip, despite the huge culture difference? Maybe you could take all of the 0 culture cities first and take Londinium and Deva for the kill (if they settle one more city and/or another barb takes a city of theirs).

 

[Charis]

Yes, there's a flip risk, but if the war doesn't last long then imo the chance to wipe Rome off the map purely from England is worth the risk - in our shoes we do need to accept some risk afterall. The worst case scenario is to capture about 4-5 then run out of gas, be forced for peace, then watch several gains flip back. So I'll go about it carefully but will not let the risk of losing one rule that option out. Despite the overblown fear of losing 8 cities that pervades all these threads, if we lose 7+ cities the game is lost anyway, elimination or not.

Got it...
Charis

 

[Jabah]

On top of the flip risk, there is also the fact that most (all) of those cities will be without any building, and some or not in the most efficient placement, so apart from the -get 8 cities straight from England- there is no real gain and lots of risk, considering some of these cities will be first ring for us, we should not take that risk with the first ones.

And Rome might just decide to settle an 8th city...

We also have enough problem keeping OUR citizens happy, don't want to imagine roman ones.

I think that at the very least we should razed Eboracum and rebuild (there with the river or next without). razing will also give at least 1 slave to build a colony on the furs.

Jabah