jack merchant
Internationalist
Got it and playing.
RBC13C - Tenacious Turks (Deity)
- Thread starter T_McC
- Start date
jack merchant
Internationalist
IHT Wake up one Sipahi to kill a pike near Salonika; the Sipahi itself goes to 1hp though 
. The Rus retreat and kill 2 Sipahi near Novgorod with zerks; several pikes and spears also show up there.
1278 AD (1) MMíng only gives an extra 2gpt in all.
Lose no less than 4 Assassins going after Zerks 3 get killed though. No leader even after 3 more elite wins. Still, only 3 Zerks will be able to attack Salonika this turn (there's still another 15 around though !)
IT 3 Zerk attacks on Salonika; 1 pike dies. We lose the Blacksmith. Poland and France get drawn in vs the Byzantines too. Denmark declares war on Sweden.
1281 AD (2) Continuing horrible combat luck with Assassins as we lose another 3 killing 2 Zerks. Good thing the Rus mostly moved West so there's only 3 more healthy zerks ready to attack this turn. Also lose a 2hp Sipahi attacking a lone spear, doing no damage. Rush an Inquisitor in Iskenderun as we need something, anything to hit the Rus with.
Northern units are healing safely in Swedish lands; I despair of ever getting them to Novgorod but we'll just have to try.
IT no attacks
. It seems as if the Rus are now going for Mugla. More meaningless wars and alliances signed.
1284 AD (3) 'Tines are at 24,790 VPs by now, we're almost at 15,000. I attack some spears with Sipahi hoping to draw the defensive bombard of the Zerks before we send the Assassins in, killing several. However, I don't do so after all since both that can move are at 3/5 and my luck with them has been awful so far.
Luck finally shines on us as an elite Assassin takes out a spy:
I build an army with Orhan and load 3 hurt Sipahi into it; they ought to heal faster this way.
IT I left Iskenderun empty to cover an inquisitor with a pike, and I suspect that was what drew the Vikings back as they now go for Salonika again, only 3 Zerks in the initial stack though. 2 Rus inquisitors attack Mugla, one dies. The other one kills a pike but I had brought a second one up just in case.
1287 AD (4) Kill the 3 Zerks at the cost of another Assassin. The Army can heal in case the Rus come back. Looking over our troops, I think I can send an Army and 10 units after the Vikings next turn should their main stack move in again. Pity it consists of 22.
Sell Invention to Cordova for 7gpt and 2 gold, trying to scrounge together the funds to hurry a pike in Salonika, manage it by rushing a Treb and switching. Can send in a 3rd one from Isk in case of emergency and that will have to do.
IT Danes bought in vs Theodora too. This is a lost cause. Furthermore, as if to illustrate again that we can't leave any unit out in the open, a Rus pike attacks and kills an elite Assassin on grassland. I'm initially furious, but then I remember these buggers have 2 attack here. The stacks move West again.
1290 AD (5) Our Army sees action rather succesfully for the first time, killing a pike and 3 Spies at the cost of only 2hp. An elite Sipahi and 3 Assassins then kill 4 zerks without loss. The offending pike from the IT gets offed by a Sipahi which promotes.
Our Northern stack is finally healed and moves in on Novgorod again; 10 Sipahi among which several elites are our last and best hope for glory, however, if the Rus stacks continue to wander around as aimlessly aas they have done, we can still hold them off.
IT Magyars join the fight to get Byzantium to 30k ASAP
1293 AD (6) Action in the North: Lose 2 Sipahi, kill 5 pikes among which 2 draftees, but there are at least 2 more plus some zerks in Novgorod, so we'll have to retreat and try again.
Army in the South kils 2 pikes and a spear but goes to 5hp from 14 total with one promotion. I'd pick off some Zerks too but we can't leave any units exposed. So I'm forced to split our offense between Mugla and Salonika as best as I can.
Byzantines are at 25,515, we're at 15,155.
The IT is terrifying; inquisitors kill a pike and elite sipahi in Mugla and redline another one. We can't see them coming as they can move from beyond the fog and attack straightaway.
In fact, the Rus seem to be going after Mugla in a major way now but who's to know ?
1296 AD (7) Scroll ahead to swap Mugla's hospital to a Sipahi due this turn. Dispatch several Zerks, 2 inquisitors, 2 pikes and a spear but no other leader emerges. Lose one healthy Sipahi at Novgorod to a reg pike, the rest retreats.
Cancel the alliance vs the Rus with the Magyars bringing back 21 gpt. They'd resign it for free but I don't think they've been a real help and we need them to put up a proper fight against the Byzantines, not get overrun.
IT Rus kill 2 Sipahi near Novgorod, one of them elite. The attacking longbow redlined first just to make sure it wouldn't retreat
. 2 inquisitors die attacking Sinop and Mugla, the rest of the stack moves north pulled by, I suspect, Swedish puppet strings.
1299 AD (8) An unnatural silence descends over Turkish lands as for the first time, it is clear of Russian troops. Our weary troops rest and heal; the Northern task force stages a fighting withdrawal.
1302 AD (9) The Rus move North into the fog; it's rather risky but I decide to pursue.
We capture Turov killing 6 defenders
. There's one major Rus stack next to it so we'll lose it and one Sipahi in the IT, but the Army's right next to it along with most of our offense, and workers and a settler get moved up to connect it when we recapture it next turn.
IT Turov falls again as expected, but a Zerk perishes in the retaking.
1305 AD (10) Recapture Turov and clean up the surrounding stack, and luck smiles on us again:
Hello 2nd Sipahi army. A settler is moved in to replace Turov.
Since the Rus have mostly gone further west, I split up our offense between Sinop and Turov, workers will connect the latter next turn.
The new front:
That's 6 Rus units in sight; I don't know about the rest but their numbers are definitely decreasing, and with Sipahi armies that can kill 4 units per turn, we are definitely growing stronger. Good thing the AI isn't that good at prioritizing targets, or we'd have been utterly toast.
We still have a stack of 9 Sipahi healing in the North, but it looks as if the Rus are drafting Novgorod into oblivion som I'm not too hopeful about our chances of taking it.
Byzantines are at 26,270, we're at 16,905.
the save
. The Rus retreat and kill 2 Sipahi near Novgorod with zerks; several pikes and spears also show up there.1278 AD (1) MMíng only gives an extra 2gpt in all.
Lose no less than 4 Assassins going after Zerks
3 get killed though. No leader even after 3 more elite wins. Still, only 3 Zerks will be able to attack Salonika this turn (there's still another 15 around though !)IT 3 Zerk attacks on Salonika; 1 pike dies. We lose the Blacksmith. Poland and France get drawn in vs the Byzantines too. Denmark declares war on Sweden.
1281 AD (2) Continuing horrible combat luck with Assassins as we lose another 3 killing 2 Zerks. Good thing the Rus mostly moved West so there's only 3 more healthy zerks ready to attack this turn. Also lose a 2hp Sipahi attacking a lone spear, doing no damage. Rush an Inquisitor in Iskenderun as we need something, anything to hit the Rus with.
Northern units are healing safely in Swedish lands; I despair of ever getting them to Novgorod but we'll just have to try.
IT no attacks
. It seems as if the Rus are now going for Mugla. More meaningless wars and alliances signed.1284 AD (3) 'Tines are at 24,790 VPs by now, we're almost at 15,000. I attack some spears with Sipahi hoping to draw the defensive bombard of the Zerks before we send the Assassins in, killing several. However, I don't do so after all since both that can move are at 3/5 and my luck with them has been awful so far.
Luck finally shines on us as an elite Assassin takes out a spy:
I build an army with Orhan and load 3 hurt Sipahi into it; they ought to heal faster this way.
IT I left Iskenderun empty to cover an inquisitor with a pike, and I suspect that was what drew the Vikings back as they now go for Salonika again, only 3 Zerks in the initial stack though. 2 Rus inquisitors attack Mugla, one dies. The other one kills a pike but I had brought a second one up just in case.
1287 AD (4) Kill the 3 Zerks at the cost of another Assassin. The Army can heal in case the Rus come back. Looking over our troops, I think I can send an Army and 10 units after the Vikings next turn should their main stack move in again. Pity it consists of 22.
Sell Invention to Cordova for 7gpt and 2 gold, trying to scrounge together the funds to hurry a pike in Salonika, manage it by rushing a Treb and switching. Can send in a 3rd one from Isk in case of emergency and that will have to do.
IT Danes bought in vs Theodora too. This is a lost cause. Furthermore, as if to illustrate again that we can't leave any unit out in the open, a Rus pike attacks and kills an elite Assassin on grassland. I'm initially furious, but then I remember these buggers have 2 attack here
. The stacks move West again.1290 AD (5) Our Army sees action rather succesfully for the first time, killing a pike and 3 Spies at the cost of only 2hp. An elite Sipahi and 3 Assassins then kill 4 zerks without loss. The offending pike from the IT gets offed by a Sipahi which promotes.
Our Northern stack is finally healed and moves in on Novgorod again; 10 Sipahi among which several elites are our last and best hope for glory, however, if the Rus stacks continue to wander around as aimlessly aas they have done, we can still hold them off.
IT Magyars join the fight to get Byzantium to 30k ASAP
1293 AD (6) Action in the North: Lose 2 Sipahi, kill 5 pikes among which 2 draftees, but there are at least 2 more plus some zerks in Novgorod, so we'll have to retreat and try again.
Army in the South kils 2 pikes and a spear but goes to 5hp from 14 total with one promotion. I'd pick off some Zerks too but we can't leave any units exposed. So I'm forced to split our offense between Mugla and Salonika as best as I can.
Byzantines are at 25,515, we're at 15,155.
The IT is terrifying; inquisitors kill a pike and elite sipahi in Mugla and redline another one. We can't see them coming as they can move from beyond the fog and attack straightaway.
In fact, the Rus seem to be going after Mugla in a major way now but who's to know ?
1296 AD (7) Scroll ahead to swap Mugla's hospital to a Sipahi due this turn. Dispatch several Zerks, 2 inquisitors, 2 pikes and a spear but no other leader emerges. Lose one healthy Sipahi at Novgorod to a reg pike, the rest retreats.
Cancel the alliance vs the Rus with the Magyars bringing back 21 gpt. They'd resign it for free but I don't think they've been a real help and we need them to put up a proper fight against the Byzantines, not get overrun.
IT Rus kill 2 Sipahi near Novgorod, one of them elite. The attacking longbow redlined first just to make sure it wouldn't retreat
. 2 inquisitors die attacking Sinop and Mugla, the rest of the stack moves north pulled by, I suspect, Swedish puppet strings.1299 AD (8) An unnatural silence descends over Turkish lands as for the first time, it is clear of Russian troops. Our weary troops rest and heal; the Northern task force stages a fighting withdrawal.
1302 AD (9) The Rus move North into the fog; it's rather risky but I decide to pursue.
We capture Turov killing 6 defenders
. There's one major Rus stack next to it so we'll lose it and one Sipahi in the IT, but the Army's right next to it along with most of our offense, and workers and a settler get moved up to connect it when we recapture it next turn.IT Turov falls again as expected, but a Zerk perishes in the retaking.
1305 AD (10) Recapture Turov and clean up the surrounding stack, and luck smiles on us again:
Hello 2nd Sipahi army. A settler is moved in to replace Turov.
Since the Rus have mostly gone further west, I split up our offense between Sinop and Turov, workers will connect the latter next turn.
The new front:
That's 6 Rus units in sight; I don't know about the rest but their numbers are definitely decreasing, and with Sipahi armies that can kill 4 units per turn, we are definitely growing stronger. Good thing the AI isn't that good at prioritizing targets, or we'd have been utterly toast.
We still have a stack of 9 Sipahi healing in the North, but it looks as if the Rus are drafting Novgorod into oblivion som I'm not too hopeful about our chances of taking it.
Byzantines are at 26,270, we're at 16,905.
the save
Caesar_Augustus
in vino veritas
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 176
Yes! Armies, FINALLY.
The big question I kept asking while reading your turnlog was: Why didn;t you send the army to the north to help the siege on Novgorod? I don't understand the logic in going after Turov when if Novgorod falls, the Rus are finished.
The big question I kept asking while reading your turnlog was: Why didn;t you send the army to the north to help the siege on Novgorod? I don't understand the logic in going after Turov when if Novgorod falls, the Rus are finished.
Justus II
General Staff
Great job Jack, way to pull us out of the fire. I do agree with Caesar, though, especially with 2 armies, now is the time to move them north and finish the Rus once and for all. With their move-4, they can get up there by the time the remnant stack heals, and can cover the approach, and then the Rus should fall. We just have to get there before the Byz win! They've grown another 4K in your turns, so the next player-turn will probably be the last. (Back to T_McC?)
jack merchant
Internationalist
I didn't send the army up north for the simple reason that there were way too many Russian troops around for me to pull it away from the front; most of the time I was shuffling defenders as best as I could to hold off the Rus so sending the army north simply wasn't an option.
Now that we are finally starting to beat them though sending them to Novgorod is a pretty decent idea
.
Now that we are finally starting to beat them though sending them to Novgorod is a pretty decent idea
.RBC13C - Captain Ahab Gets His Whale
1305 AD (0)
We make 92 gpt and are paying 162 to other civs. The Byz have 26,270 VP. We have 16905. We are 4th behind the Abbasids and Sweden(?). In 3 turns is a big diplo round, although I don't think we need anything except lux so we can run 100% taxes.
We have 22 Sipahi and 10 Assassins.
Initial goal will be to get the armies out of Turov. All depends on what the Rus throw at it. Our stack of mild discomfort (9 Sipahi) are healing in Swedish territory in anticipation of attacking Novograd. Since Novograd is size 6, there will be no further drafting. It may be go time in 3 turns.
Make 124 gold by selling the WM around, and Invention to the Magyars.
To the best of my abilities, we are only at war with the Rus.
<Return>
IT - Just like in real history, Sweden and Norway ally against Cordova.
Bunch of stuff shows up around Sinop, and one of our Pikes dies in a pathetic attempt at defense in Cankiri.
1308 AD (1)
Kill a bunch of Rus units, but screw up a bit because I thought Assassins had ATAR. So we'll lose a few units on the IT, but no cities can fall, and the balance of what advanced into our territory will be cleaned up next turn. Evacuated the healthier army to the west. I think it will arrive 1 turn to late to join the seige of Novograd, but who knows?
We have 17025 VP to the Byz 26725.
IT - We lose 1 unit. I swear it looks like Inquisitors have an attack greater than 4, unless the Rus are really lucky with those things.
1311 AD (2)
It appears to be a rule that all of our spies must redline against all opponents. Kill another bunch of Rus, losing only an Inquisitor (unlike the Rus units, ours can lose to an archer on defense.)
Now VP are 17210 vs. 27965, we're slipping away.
I was going to postpone the assault on Novograd for another turn, but I think the Byz will win in two turns.
Doubly unforunately, our "allies" the Swedes have jammed up the roads and I still can't attack for two more turns.
1314 AD (3)
In position to attack Novograd next turn. Kill yet another stack of Rus units. I really hate Inquisitors.
VP: Us, 17,360. Byz, 28225. I think we have one last hurrah.
IT - Byz make peace with Poles, jack us up for 41 gold. Rus finally lose an Inquisitor on offense.
1317 AD (4)
Alrighty. The road is clear, and we assault Novograd:
Forget play-by-play, there was a Super Pikeman that required 4 Sipahi to kill.
Then vet Sipahi kills conscript Pike, revealing another conscript Pike. Repeat. How often can these clowns draft? 4/5 Sipahi retreats from conscript Pike, and city will not fall this turn.
Should fall next turn, but you know how the pRNG has loved us this game.
Back to defending our cities, and pop another leader in cleaning up trash of Rus units. Suleyman rushes Arab Medicine in Iznik.
You know, Sweden might kill the Rus on the IT. Two 'zerks are in position to strike, and I think there are only two units in Novograd. Let's get lucky and let the Rus have 3 there.
On the VP front: 17575 vs. 28525
IT - Sweden kills two Pikes (including 1 fresh Conscript?), generates a Great Leader, and leaves a 'zerk as the top defender in Novograd.
1320 AD (5)
At Novograd, Elite Sipahi survives a 'zerk shot to kill vet. Pike. Elite Horse charges through a catapult barrage to kill the 'zerk. Vet Sipahi charges and ... about 10 minutes later ...
Our VP only goes up to 20715.
1323 AD (6)
Found a city. Then frag a barb camp! Then found another city.
IT - Byz and Abbasids make peace. Then go right back to war. Love that sub bug.
1326 AD (7)
I think this is it, the Byz have 29885 VP. So spread out and found 8 cities, including Not Constantinople.
1329 AD (8)
Fin.
We ended 3rd in Population, 5th in Land area. Had the game lasted 10 more turns, we may have been able to secure the land area lead with some further settlements and rushed Temples. We were 4th in VP, trailing the Byz, Abbasids, and Sweden.
True Dat, Alex. True Dat.
1305 AD (0)
We make 92 gpt and are paying 162 to other civs. The Byz have 26,270 VP. We have 16905. We are 4th behind the Abbasids and Sweden(?). In 3 turns is a big diplo round, although I don't think we need anything except lux so we can run 100% taxes.
We have 22 Sipahi and 10 Assassins.
Initial goal will be to get the armies out of Turov. All depends on what the Rus throw at it. Our stack of mild discomfort (9 Sipahi) are healing in Swedish territory in anticipation of attacking Novograd. Since Novograd is size 6, there will be no further drafting. It may be go time in 3 turns.
Make 124 gold by selling the WM around, and Invention to the Magyars.
To the best of my abilities, we are only at war with the Rus.
<Return>
IT - Just like in real history, Sweden and Norway ally against Cordova.
Bunch of stuff shows up around Sinop, and one of our Pikes dies in a pathetic attempt at defense in Cankiri.
1308 AD (1)
Kill a bunch of Rus units, but screw up a bit because I thought Assassins had ATAR. So we'll lose a few units on the IT, but no cities can fall, and the balance of what advanced into our territory will be cleaned up next turn. Evacuated the healthier army to the west. I think it will arrive 1 turn to late to join the seige of Novograd, but who knows?
We have 17025 VP to the Byz 26725.
IT - We lose 1 unit. I swear it looks like Inquisitors have an attack greater than 4, unless the Rus are really lucky with those things.
1311 AD (2)
It appears to be a rule that all of our spies must redline against all opponents. Kill another bunch of Rus, losing only an Inquisitor (unlike the Rus units, ours can lose to an archer on defense.)
Now VP are 17210 vs. 27965, we're slipping away.
I was going to postpone the assault on Novograd for another turn, but I think the Byz will win in two turns.
Doubly unforunately, our "allies" the Swedes have jammed up the roads and I still can't attack for two more turns. 1314 AD (3)
In position to attack Novograd next turn. Kill yet another stack of Rus units. I really hate Inquisitors.
VP: Us, 17,360. Byz, 28225. I think we have one last hurrah.
IT - Byz make peace with Poles, jack us up for 41 gold. Rus finally lose an Inquisitor on offense.
1317 AD (4)
Alrighty. The road is clear, and we assault Novograd:
Forget play-by-play, there was a Super Pikeman that required 4 Sipahi to kill.
Then vet Sipahi kills conscript Pike, revealing another conscript Pike. Repeat. How often can these clowns draft? 4/5 Sipahi retreats from conscript Pike, and city will not fall this turn.
Should fall next turn, but you know how the pRNG has loved us this game.
Back to defending our cities, and pop another leader in cleaning up trash of Rus units. Suleyman rushes Arab Medicine in Iznik.
You know, Sweden might kill the Rus on the IT. Two 'zerks are in position to strike, and I think there are only two units in Novograd. Let's get lucky and let the Rus have 3 there.
On the VP front: 17575 vs. 28525
IT - Sweden kills two Pikes (including 1 fresh Conscript?), generates a Great Leader, and leaves a 'zerk as the top defender in Novograd.
1320 AD (5)
At Novograd, Elite Sipahi survives a 'zerk shot to kill vet. Pike. Elite Horse charges through a catapult barrage to kill the 'zerk. Vet Sipahi charges and ... about 10 minutes later ...
Our VP only goes up to 20715.
1323 AD (6)
Found a city. Then frag a barb camp! Then found another city.
IT - Byz and Abbasids make peace. Then go right back to war. Love that sub bug.
1326 AD (7)
I think this is it, the Byz have 29885 VP. So spread out and found 8 cities, including Not Constantinople.
1329 AD (8)
Fin.
We ended 3rd in Population, 5th in Land area. Had the game lasted 10 more turns, we may have been able to secure the land area lead with some further settlements and rushed Temples. We were 4th in VP, trailing the Byz, Abbasids, and Sweden.
True Dat, Alex. True Dat.
jack merchant
Internationalist
Well, it was a brave attempt .
It looks as if having the best UU in the whole scenario is a curse rather than a blessing; it comes late and takes ages to build in rather improductive terrain. And we were so tied to the Byzantines for tech and lux deals that attacking them never seemed an option.
Still, it was a pleasure to play with everyone and hope to see you all in RBC14 !
.It looks as if having the best UU in the whole scenario is a curse rather than a blessing; it comes late and takes ages to build in rather improductive terrain. And we were so tied to the Byzantines for tech and lux deals that attacking them never seemed an option.
Still, it was a pleasure to play with everyone and hope to see you all in RBC14 !
Justus II
General Staff
Well, at least we got the RUS! It was a valiant effort, and with enough time to settle the Rus lands, we could have made a run for it. Thanks to the team for letting me jump in, and I appreciated an INTENSE turn, definitely a challenge, and I enjoy those. 
Oddly, my last few turns pointed to winning by domination as being both possible and impossible.
We only got about 3000 VP for killing the Rus, so I think it would have been possible to execute a surgical strike against the Byz to eliminate them, and still not go over 30K VP. What makes me less optimistic is the presence of the sub bug. You just can't stop the AI from throwing 50+ shield units into the meat grinder every turn. The player is penalized in this type of game because the AI knows nothing of troop conservation. So you'll have Longbows killing Assasins who killed Longbows who killed Inquisitors who killed Assassins ad naseum from the AI.
The presence of that bug means the player is really fighting the clock in this scenario, and it particularly affects the Turks. Once the Arab civs know Assassination, all hell breaks loose and the VP's start to skyrocket. Were the Turk UU enabled by Jihad, we may have been able to work around this. [Do you think we could have done a little better having Sipahi 40 turns earlier? ] I didn't fully appreciate this until it was too late for this game. So we started with a strategy based on a flawed understanding of the game. We were waiting for our UU to really go on the offensive, and there was just too much time pressure from the VP limit for that to work.
I'm at a bit of a loss to come up with a strategy to win with the Turks by domination that doesn't involve a bit of luck. Our central economic strategy was ruined by a leader drought, compare our leader luck to that of the non-militaristic Rus in their game. But any strategy that requires leaders to be successful is doomed to fail. The best thought I could come up with was to have a pre-build almost from the start of the game, and then steal Western Church to build the HRE. If that worked, the two free techs could be Jihad and Assassination, enabling Sipahi ~60 turns earlier. But that too relies on one roll of the dice.
So the soundest strategy may be a "constant-war" approach, with a number of Horse/Sword wars against our neighbors. So less settling at the beginning, more fighting. I wouldn't really fancy an infantry war against the Rus 'zerks, or having to take on Byzantine production. But at least the latter would have been doable with Allies.
In addition to the leader drought we had some other bad luck. Our juciest target were the Bulgars, but they got dog-piled almost from the start. We easily could have fought a major, pre-Sipahi war against them (rather than the minor wars we did fight). Their demise enabled the Rus to get huge, so even if we were the 4th largest civ, all those who were bigger than us were our neighbors! It also seemed as though the Rus didn't fight any wars until we attacked them. At least I didn't see them fighting anyone else.
Finally, I don't think the Turks are the best choice to try to achieve domination, I think Sweden is. A Scandanavian civ can eliminate the other Scandanavians civs rather quickly, and settle all of the northern lands themselves. Then move on to the British Isles, wipe out the Celts and English, and settle all of those lands. That should give 15-20% land area without competition or need to actively defend. One could then pick on the smaller European civs for the last 5-10%. No other civ could mount a serious invasion of those lands, or hope to hold a colony there. The possibility to eliminate 4 civs early may be enough to keep the VP down and not trigger a VP win, especially if one was only attacking King cities. Again, we had the problem of being 4th largest (or so), and only having the option to attack those civs bigger than us. But overall, I'm just not sure a domination win is possible on Deity. There are just too many units to kill to stay below 30K.
Oh well, it was fun. Thanks to all involved, and I'll be seeing you in other SG's.
We only got about 3000 VP for killing the Rus, so I think it would have been possible to execute a surgical strike against the Byz to eliminate them, and still not go over 30K VP. What makes me less optimistic is the presence of the sub bug. You just can't stop the AI from throwing 50+ shield units into the meat grinder every turn. The player is penalized in this type of game because the AI knows nothing of troop conservation. So you'll have Longbows killing Assasins who killed Longbows who killed Inquisitors who killed Assassins ad naseum from the AI.
The presence of that bug means the player is really fighting the clock in this scenario, and it particularly affects the Turks. Once the Arab civs know Assassination, all hell breaks loose and the VP's start to skyrocket. Were the Turk UU enabled by Jihad, we may have been able to work around this. [Do you think we could have done a little better having Sipahi 40 turns earlier?
] I didn't fully appreciate this until it was too late for this game. So we started with a strategy based on a flawed understanding of the game. We were waiting for our UU to really go on the offensive, and there was just too much time pressure from the VP limit for that to work. I'm at a bit of a loss to come up with a strategy to win with the Turks by domination that doesn't involve a bit of luck. Our central economic strategy was ruined by a leader drought, compare our leader luck to that of the non-militaristic Rus in their game. But any strategy that requires leaders to be successful is doomed to fail. The best thought I could come up with was to have a pre-build almost from the start of the game, and then steal Western Church to build the HRE. If that worked, the two free techs could be Jihad and Assassination, enabling Sipahi ~60 turns earlier. But that too relies on one roll of the dice.
So the soundest strategy may be a "constant-war" approach, with a number of Horse/Sword wars against our neighbors. So less settling at the beginning, more fighting. I wouldn't really fancy an infantry war against the Rus 'zerks, or having to take on Byzantine production. But at least the latter would have been doable with Allies.
In addition to the leader drought we had some other bad luck. Our juciest target were the Bulgars, but they got dog-piled almost from the start. We easily could have fought a major, pre-Sipahi war against them (rather than the minor wars we did fight). Their demise enabled the Rus to get huge, so even if we were the 4th largest civ, all those who were bigger than us were our neighbors! It also seemed as though the Rus didn't fight any wars until we attacked them. At least I didn't see them fighting anyone else.
Finally, I don't think the Turks are the best choice to try to achieve domination, I think Sweden is. A Scandanavian civ can eliminate the other Scandanavians civs rather quickly, and settle all of the northern lands themselves. Then move on to the British Isles, wipe out the Celts and English, and settle all of those lands. That should give 15-20% land area without competition or need to actively defend. One could then pick on the smaller European civs for the last 5-10%. No other civ could mount a serious invasion of those lands, or hope to hold a colony there. The possibility to eliminate 4 civs early may be enough to keep the VP down and not trigger a VP win, especially if one was only attacking King cities. Again, we had the problem of being 4th largest (or so), and only having the option to attack those civs bigger than us. But overall, I'm just not sure a domination win is possible on Deity. There are just too many units to kill to stay below 30K.
Oh well, it was fun. Thanks to all involved, and I'll be seeing you in other SG's.
Charis
Realms Beyond
Well that was a valiant effort folks. Indeed, it was a great show of fortitude that as you went down, you took out the Rus first!
I can't much argue with your assessment of the likelihood of a domination win or that the Swedes would be an extremely good contender for that. It seems both games aiming for non-VP victories fell considerable short of the goal, in some part due to slowness at the start but to a large degree due to factors not much in their control. I had *no idea* the sub-bug would have such a huge impact on this scenario, but you're right, the trading of assassin for longbow is quite a VP meat grinder.
Thanks for playing!
Charis
I can't much argue with your assessment of the likelihood of a domination win or that the Swedes would be an extremely good contender for that. It seems both games aiming for non-VP victories fell considerable short of the goal, in some part due to slowness at the start but to a large degree due to factors not much in their control. I had *no idea* the sub-bug would have such a huge impact on this scenario, but you're right, the trading of assassin for longbow is quite a VP meat grinder.
Thanks for playing!
Charis
